How Youth Ministry Can Help College Students Thrive w/ Paul Worcester

What if the greatest measure of success in youth ministry isn't getting students to graduation...

...it's what happens after they leave?

Every youth pastor has watched it happen. A student who was faithful all through high school slowly disappears during their first semester of college. Rarely is it one dramatic decision. More often it's loneliness, distraction, isolation, and never learning how to follow Jesus without someone planning their spiritual life.

In this episode, Zac Workun sits down with Paul Worcester (North American Mission Board) to explore what college ministry leaders see every fall—and what youth pastors can do before graduation to help students develop a faith that actually lasts.

Together they unpack why the first 90 days of college are one of the most important windows in a student's spiritual life, how discipleship must move beyond teaching into training, and why smaller discipleship groups may be one of the missing pieces in modern youth ministry.

📘Paul also introduces Thrive, a new Bible study designed to help students navigate the transition from high school to college with a gospel-centered identity and sustainable spiritual habits.

If you want your graduates to leave your ministry prepared—not just inspired—this conversation is for you.

In This Episode

• Why the first 90 days of college often determine a student's spiritual trajectory
• The difference between teaching students and training disciples
• Why youth ministry small groups may still be too big
• How accountability changes spiritual growth
• Helping students learn to feed themselves through Scripture and prayer
• Creating a better handoff between youth ministry and college ministry
• Why every youth pastor should connect graduates to a BCM or healthy collegiate ministry before move-in day
• Preparing students for head, heart, and hands discipleship—not just apologetics
• Helping students build identity in Christ instead of performance
• Why sanctification is a lifelong journey—not a finish line
• Grace-centered discipline versus legalism in a distracted generation
• Simplifying youth ministry around a wide front door and a deep discipleship core

Key Takeaways

One of the biggest ideas from this conversation is simple:

Students don't simply need more or better sermons. They need better training. Intentional, relational, and personal.

Teaching informs.

Training transforms.

When students regularly practice Scripture, prayer, accountability, evangelism, and spiritual disciplines before graduation, they're far more likely to continue those rhythms when nobody is checking attendance.

As Paul says:

"More time with fewer people leads to greater lasting Kingdom impact."

Transcript

Live From SBC In Orlando

Zac Workun 0:06

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Youth Booster Podcast. Hang on, my buddy Paul Wooster. First of all, we have to apologize. I may have sent out an email that this episode was coming, and I may have said Paul liked the sauce. It may be sauce by the time we're done, but Paul, so glad you're here. Welcome to SBC, buddy.

Speaker 2 0:23

I'm Paul. We're doing it live.

Zac Workun 0:26

First up the gate, too. It's Sunday of SBC. So if you're watching this, it's happened. It was great. Hopefully we saw you while we were here. But we have so many friends that are here, and we just, I mean, how often are our Hawaii friends in town, right? Come on.

Speaker 4 0:41

Overnight flight here, recovered. And I preached this morning. Preached this morning. Amazing. Come on, so revitalization. And we had one salvation. Come on.

Zac Workun 0:52

So it's so fun just to see that happen. Happening. No. Orlando is alive with the good folks of the SBC. Thanks for coming and making your way in to come share this a little bit. We are excited this summer for us, though, is episodes all related to seminary and college. And so to have you come share on behalf of Nam and your experience in college ministry, man, we're excited to talk about faith that sticks and faith that lasts. And so we're going to get

Paul’s Story And The Call

Zac Workun 1:15

into those big questions that you're probably feeling in a summer season of, man, kids are leaving, kids are coming in. But I just wanted folks to get to know you a little bit more because you have this really cool trajectory that just really kind of unfolds in a cool way. So working for NAM, living in Hawaii, but we actually have a fun connection because you spent a little bit of time in Oklahoma too, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:35

So I went to the University of Oklahoma. Yeah, go, go, but boom. My life was changed, completely transformed through the personal discipleship ministry of OUBCM. A guy from Max Barnett discipled me, and that just completely transformed my life. Yeah. And then I moved to Northern California, Chico State. Chico State, yeah. Which sounds like a made-up school. It's a Van Wilder movie when it happened.

Speaker 2 1:57

Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 1:58

But my wife and I raised our support from scratch. Okay. And just started that ministry with two students. Yeah. And it grew to in about 12 years, we saw over a thousand professions of faith in Christ. Amazing. So we saw this little movement of God on the campus. Yeah. And we started coaching other leaders informally, just on the side. And then uh Shane Pruitt, we all know who he is. Yeah. He called me up and kind of described everything I was feeling called to do. Okay. And to work for NAM.

Zac Workun 2:27

Was there NAM collegiate efforts before you, or is this a new innovation from y'all to do some of this? What does that look like?

Speaker 4 2:32

So yeah, the coaching network, I started the collegiate coaching network for the North American Mission Board.

Zac Workun 2:37

For those working with collegiate-based ministries.

Speaker 4 2:40

Campus-based, or even we have some collegiate focused church planners. Okay. And they're basically anyone that's wanting to reach or disciple college students.

Zac Workun 2:47

That's awesome.

Speaker 4 2:47

We've have about 200 uh leaders a year. We take through that coaching network. That's great. And that's my primary uh thing I do. And then I do one-day trainings to do for leaders. Yeah. And then I love to speak to college students as well.

Zac Workun 2:59

So you are inundated with uh both the college student and the college ministry leader. Oh, yeah. I know that for a lot of us, that's that's kind of where they're headed next. Now, not every kid that graduates goes to college, but so many of them do. And so many of us that work in youth ministry, it feels a little bit like the unknown. Like it is sometimes the void, especially if they're going out of state or to a place that we haven't personally been to or graduated from. And so it feels like this weird like catch and release. And so, man,

Why Faith Wobbles After Graduation

Zac Workun 3:28

that's what we want to talk to you about today because I know that you are in it, and a lot of us are feeling the tension of what comes next. So, for my Oklahoma Surfing Nam leadership friend, man, help me know a little bit like what's the picture that you would want to paint for a student's face, uh faith after they graduate youth ministry, like like give us a baseline or a median value, like where where are most kids that come out of a youth ministry? Not just college kids at large, but if they are telling you, like, hey, I grew up in a youth group, yeah, what what does that often look like? Give us a portrait.

Speaker 4 4:01

Yeah, well, my own life is a good case study for that, where I had a great youth experience. I went on mission trips, I did all the stuff, yeah, all the camps, all the checklists, all the gold stuff. All stars. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I still showed up at Chairman of Youth Council, come on. Exactly. And I showed up at the University of Oklahoma, which is a pretty Christian place compared to Chico State. It's Oklahoma, it's a state school, but it's Oklahoma, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where it's but compared to Northern California, okay. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, I showed up there and there was still that tension, that pull. Okay. And that's actually in the resource Thrive that we're they were producing. Yeah, yeah. That the first chapter is from conflicted to confident. Okay. And that really was my story. I I showed up with the kind of an identity crisis where I was pulled to be cool among the non-Christians and all the different things tempting me.

Speaker 3 4:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 4:50

And then eventually um came to know like a deeper understanding of discipleship and my identity in Christ. And that my second semester of freshman year, yeah, through the one-on-one discipleship, yeah, yeah. That's what really rebirthed, kind of reignited my faith.

Zac Workun 5:06

Do you think it was was a necessary conflict, a healthy conflict? Like what what what about it? Is it just the the change of venue, the coming of age? Like, yeah, what what is what is the frame up what that conflict is for so many of them? Is it just these are the things that I've heard and now I have to ask them again? Or like, or are there new challenges and temptations?

Speaker 4 5:27

Yeah, I'd say it's all of the above, really. Okay. It's a good, healthy thing that everyone should make their faith

Teach Less And Train More

Speaker 4 5:33

their own. Yeah. But we can make it easier on students than hard. How do we make it easier?

Zac Workun 5:39

I think that is that that is like that's the fear, and yet also I think you're right, like the conflict is the like the crucible, the healthy moment where it's like, I haven't just heard it, but I do believe it. So how do but how do we make it easier?

Speaker 4 5:50

God is yeah, like God allows those testings and that to strengthen the faith. Yeah. But the thing that I found to what I wish someone would have instilled in me as a in my youth ministry was learning how to feed myself.

Speaker 3 6:02

Okay.

Speaker 4 6:02

To have that daily time alone with God, okay, quiet time, that feeding of myself, yeah, and having the peer-to-peer accountability. Okay. I had a lot of good teaching up in youth group, amazing teaching, and I stayed away from the big sins.

Speaker 3 6:17

Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

Speaker 4 6:18

I didn't really have that vibrant time daily in the word, okay. Prayer. I wasn't feeding myself.

Speaker 3 6:24

Okay.

Speaker 4 6:24

It was kind of like a mama penguin and a baby penguin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of churches, a lot of ministries, that's how they do it. They they teach, yeah, but they don't train. Okay. And so I think that's so key. Once I started getting training, okay, how to read the word for myself, how to apply it.

Zac Workun 6:40

You're pushing a good button though, because I think this is one of the things a lot of youth pastors love the opportunities that we get to preach or

Closed Groups And Real Accountability

Zac Workun 6:47

we get to teach. Yep. So g give us maybe some ways in which we can understand how teaching could look more like training. Yes. Because that I think that's the like we've seen it, we we all have seen things done a certain way, and we all try to uh replicate what we've seen done well. Yep. So help us imagine or see it differently beyond just maybe the 27-minute sermon. Like what would what would a model that was more training, less teaching look like?

Speaker 4 7:14

Yeah, I think there needs to be some environments in in any ministry that's almost like a closed group, a smaller group. Okay. Smaller than small? Yeah. Now you can now you're talking about language.

Zac Workun 7:25

Because that's that's one of the things that I worry about is that we've got a lot of small groups of 20 people. And I don't know about you. 20 people ain't a small group. Like every 11th grader at the church isn't necessarily a small group. That's just a graded or gendered group. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 7:39

And if I had my preference between um a mid-sized group and a group of five or less, I would choose a closed group of five or less. Okay. Where there's peer-to-peer accountability. Okay. There's content you're going through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But really, you don't get this is classic discipleship stuff, but you don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect.

Zac Workun 7:59

Come on.

Speaker 4 7:59

Okay. Come on. Say it more. Say it more. Come on. Come on. Yeah. Actually, in the our church in Hawaii, I don't think I mentioned this, but we live in Hawaii. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So someone's got to do it. We're branded, we're ready. Yeah, long story. Not just a big fan of Oahu, but yeah, you actually live there, and we were making disciples there. But my son is 14 and he's involved in the youth group.

Zac Workun 8:17

So you're living it, Daddy. Like you're in it.

Speaker 4 8:19

The thing is, he's he's in a small discipleship group and with three or four other guys the same age, and one of the pastors is leading that group. And each week they do soaps, scripture, observation, application, prayer. Yeah. And he's up at 11 o'clock at night. Yeah. We're trying to get him to go to bed, and he's grinding his soap out. And we're like, why is that? It's because he doesn't want to be the guy that said, I only did three. And so there's a little bit of healthy competition and accountability that he's.

Zac Workun 8:48

Well, and I think that that extra A, the, the, the soap and the soap, because like that is, I mean, not not that that's a it's a healthy formula, but if it lacks accountability, it's the it's the idea of the gym versus having a workout buddy, right? Like it's one of those, like, oh sure, like I should, but having someone that actually pushes you, presses you, because that is the part that like when you have 15 kids in your small group, you can kind of dodge answering, right? Like it's one of those, like, I'll I'll I'll make a funny answer and then let it go around the group again and kind of miss it. But if there's only four of us, uh, you know, nobody wants to be the one that didn't. And so that presses that button.

Speaker 4 9:26

And so that's a problem to solve in a youth ministry context, I understand, because you only have a certain amount of time slots with them. But that's kind of my thought is yeah, from the kind of reverse engineering, what are you hoping to see? Yeah, and if they walk onto a college campus with already experience, yeah, accountability, and discipleship, being pressed in a good way in that healthy environment.

Zac Workun 9:49

It almost creates some of that conflict, right? Do you actually believe? Have you actually read? Yeah, and so it isn't just like I've observed and I've heard, but actually was challenged.

Speaker 4 9:58

And they're gonna long for that when they step onto campus. And there's great college ministries and great churches that will provide that if the students coming in asking for it. Yeah, but they need to they need to really be intentional and come with that desire for encouragement,

Loneliness And The 90 Day Window

Speaker 4 10:13

accountability, connection. And that's one of the like kind of things we talk about in the Thrive resource, also. Yeah. From loneliness to connection.

Speaker 3 10:21

Okay.

Speaker 4 10:22

Loneliness and isolation is such a huge thing.

Speaker 3 10:24

Okay.

Speaker 4 10:25

During the first month or the first semester, yeah. Someone goes off to college. Actually, the friends a student makes that first month often determines the rest of their life.

Zac Workun 10:35

Is it really that immediate?

Speaker 4 10:36

I would I would be that confident.

Zac Workun 10:38

Because one of the things you talk about is having that faith that would endure. Um, and man, it it makes it makes sense in retrospect, but that puts an extra pressure on again, the how do we release or launch well from graduation to what comes next? Yep. And it really is that 90-day window, right? Like that, like like who's their roommate, what dormitory are they in, how are they spending their weeks or their time.

Speaker 4 11:03

Yeah.

Zac Workun 11:04

Uh is is that would you say that's like a hinge almost?

Speaker 4 11:06

Oh, yeah. I would even call it compared to like the handoff on a baton, a relay race. Okay. And a lot, unfortunately, it's that narrow track, it's the it's the eight yards between. If you drop that baton, yeah, yeah, like it's it's rare for someone to pick it up, at least in a in the next few years. Okay. We find many fall off. Okay. And the the statistics vary on that. But right now, there's still a high percentage of people that are youth group all-stars, like I was again gold star, all the hoodies, yeah, leatherbound bible. Come on, drifting from real community

Making The Baton Pass To Campus

Speaker 4 11:38

and connection. Okay. Just because they didn't make that connection. And so there's there's some things you can do as a youth leader to kind of.

Zac Workun 11:44

Is that connection like so as a as a youth minister that maybe is either in, you know, one town over or one state over, how how do we help ensure that connection? I mean, we don't necessarily gonna know their roommate, but maybe we find the churches, find the youth, the the pastors. Like, what are some of the ways that we can help? Like, how do we smooth the ground of that baton pass?

Speaker 4 12:07

Yeah, that's a great question. The BCM, Baptist Collegiate Ministry, is a great resource.

Zac Workun 12:12

In pretty much every state and most major universities, right?

Speaker 4 12:15

We're on about 900 universities across the nation. Okay. And then there's great churches, there's a growing movement of church-based collegiate ministries. Okay. That like maybe First Baptist. There's also groups like Salt Company, other groups that are church-based, but they're really on campus reaching students. And so find a good ministry or two or three, yeah, and make that connection. You actually make a connection for the student.

Zac Workun 12:38

Yeah, you do it. Like do it for them. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 12:43

Okay. That I mean, I know it's a lot of resources and time.

Zac Workun 12:47

Well, but we also don't want to fail. Yeah. Because that's, I mean, we we talked about it pre-show a little bit. I think a lot of youth ministry feels like, hey, we got them graduated, but so much of, yeah, we did, hey, you know, it's like, it's like the the the parent of the grandparent that's like, hey, not my problem. Yeah. And yet for so many of us, we hear the stories of things that went weird freshman year, of maybe as simple as like they're not really involved, or as heavy as like they dropped out and they're doing something else. And we don't want that to be our legacy of literally the handoff, yeah. And that that success, maybe that succession of what we moved from here to there. Uh, and it may just be as simple as a connecting phone call, or maybe, maybe instead of one more event, like the van trip we actually take is the vision trip to state.

Speaker 4 13:32

Yeah, totally. Okay, and have a meeting with not just the the pastor, college pastor, or BCM director, meet with some students. Yeah, get them to know some of their peers that will be the next year and do something with them in a little gathering, little hangout time and something informal. Yeah, and they they show up to campus knowing a handful of other students that are there that could be their peers, that could be a game store, potential roommates, or at least hallmates or folks to find and connect with.

Zac Workun 13:59

I know that for so many people, like one one of the things that seems to be true is that for a lot of kids, especially, I mean, sounds like you moved a lot. I I didn't move a lot, and so not moving a lot means I wasn't new very often. Yes. And so for teenagers that haven't been new somewhere, it's hard to do new if you don't know how to do new. Yes. And for the kid that you have, ironically, some of the most faithful, best attending gold star youth group hoodie wearing students, like when they're new somewhere, that actually is the first time they've been challenged in that way. Yeah. And they just may not be tested. And they just they don't know. Yes. Um, so help, okay. I want you, I want you to help us give the game away. So this is one of the things

Questions Students Will Face Soon

Zac Workun 14:40

that we talk about a lot as our team is um in a world that you don't know, it's difficult, but you're coming from the other side. Yes. So help us know on the youth side of stuff, what are the questions that college kids are asking that maybe we could even test them, challenge them now? I think we all fear the you know, the freshman philosophy professor or the the hallmate with big ideas or big, you know, prodding poking questions. But how even now, when they're 15, 16, can we be mindful, thoughtful of those uh well-designed conflict to produce uh confidence or conviction uh in their safe environment. They're in the ministry, they're here and they're trusted. How do we take the trust and press them towards the right kind of challenge?

Speaker 4 15:27

Yeah, that is so good. And and I I feel like sometimes people take a strictly apologetics approach to it. Okay, which I would say apologetics, um, you know, the why we believe what we believe, that's probably 20% of the vision. And so somebody's upset by that, but I'm with you.

Speaker 2 15:44

Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need some guy, you just crashed his whole teaching plate.

Speaker 4 15:49

That's like the head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we also have to instill the heart behind it, like an experiential.

Zac Workun 15:54

Which is off of the battleground of Christianity. Like I I thought I knew, but then now I'm being accused of not being a loving person because of whatever social norm or reality has been pressed. Yep. So how do we how do we test there, Paul?

Speaker 4 16:07

Yeah, so it's head, heart, okay, and then so that's your character, your passion for God, yeah, your experience. You want them to not just have knowledge about the scriptures, yeah. You need them to really have experience God in an authentic way. So mission trips, yeah, evangelism, if you get them sharing their faith, yeah. I I used to lead in youth ministry, letting it bubble up, yeah. You took them out two by two at the park one summer. Okay, and it was this 14-year-old kid after we went out two by two talking with adults, yeah, everyone at this local park, yeah, he came up to me almost in tears saying, Thank you for pushing us to do this. This was the best thing I ever did in our youth ministry. Okay, because he got that experience where he, the Holy Spirit kind of, you know, when you step out of your comfort zone, yeah, man, that's that experience of the whole with the Holy Spirit.

Zac Workun 16:54

Well, it's it's that thoughtful, designed, testing, challenging thing. Like that is um you youth ministry is such a good moment to not just see the classroom, but the laboratory. Yeah, like how do how do we how do we design the experiments for them to be okay failing?

Speaker 17:11

Yeah.

Zac Workun 17:11

Because I think that's the thing that we're so worried about is that we get so protective or so fearful that we never have moments of failure. So that the time that they first fail, it's the only fail because they never know how to bounce back. Like it's it's the uh it's I mean, we both have sons. Sometimes they have to play on a team and lose because that's better than winning.

Speaker 4 17:29

Yeah, we have to, we cannot. I think too many youth ministries, baby, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? They they try to create this perfectly safe, yeah, good and make it as easy as possible. That's right, that's right. Yes. And really what we need to be doing is upping the bar enough that they can really stick with it and move with the movers, like like the ones that really want it, having some layer of leadership team. Yeah. Again, my son, he's a part of FCA also. Yeah. And just this week, they asked him to lead a devotional. And I wish you could have seen the look on his face. He was like a deer in the headline. He was terrified. Yeah, but I got to sit down with him. I have to. Yeah, yeah. So I got to sit down with him and help him go first Timothy 4 12. He chose that words. Yeah. Break it down. How do you ask good questions? How do you and he the I when he got home, yeah, he was like walking on clouds, floating. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm so that's what we need to see. Head, heart, hands. Hands. So that's the skill. Yeah. And really helping them.

Zac Workun 18:30

Literally, like, like let's not just talk about shovels and rakes, let's actually put it to good use, man.

Speaker 4 18:36

So that's the difference between teaching and training. Okay. You know, is and so if if they're getting that, they're gonna be looking for the same sort of there's collegiate ministries out there that are really doing that sort of thing. Good. Okay. And so you know you gotta find the right ones, do your homework, yeah, and really form little mini pipelines from your youth ministry to those college campuses and those those churches.

Zac Workun 18:57

Well, one more reason that longevity at a place is good, but also nurturing those networked relationships. Like that is like youth ministry leader, it is not just what you can prepare in the spaces that you can oversee. We talked a few weeks ago about arenas and that youth ministry is the youth group. Absolutely. Yeah, youth ministry is also the larger church, in as much that we can speak into it. Right, youth ministry is also the home, in as much that we can influence and connect with parents. But youth ministry is also anticipating those next stages of life. Like the gift of youth ministry is that you aren't 17. And so you can help imagine for someone that is 17 what might come next. In the same way that discipleship is answering the question of what's my next move, what's my next step? I think for a teenager, what's my next chapter? Even if you haven't gone to this school or that school or trade school or wherever, you know what it's like to have moved through, or you've at least had enough students go through that

Identity Gospel And Sanctification

Zac Workun 20:01

you have a prediction or projection of what could be. Yep. Okay, Paul, give us a little bit more. I noticed in Thrive, you often point back to the gospel rather techniques or self-improvement. On behalf of our team, thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but what are some of the ways in which that is not only important, but ways that can we can guard against that? I know that there's a little bit of a temptation sometimes of feeling like the to say it in this way that the gospel isn't enough.

Speaker 3 20:29

Right.

Zac Workun 20:29

I've got to talk about all these other things. I've got I've got so much content that I want to share. How would you give a word of both wisdom and caution for folks that feel like, is this enough?

Speaker 4 20:39

Yeah, I mean, one of the things I talk about, because we address issues that are most common among young people anxiety, yeah, pornography, yeah, shame, yeah, loneliness, all these different things. But I I'm kind of redundant where I'm just getting to three things identity in Christ, the gospel, and sanctification. This vision of lifelong process of sanctification helps students understand it's gonna be a journey, it's gonna be a process, and learning to preach the gospel to yourself, yeah, and understanding the gospel's not just for being saved, yeah, it's also how we grow. We grow through understanding and applying the gospel to our lives. And so that's what a lot of the scriptures we look at is all about.

Zac Workun 21:25

You know, it's Romans 8, it's all those different things, looking at how to engage that process of sanctification and not outgrowing it as something that we used to hear about or a message for our younger self, but a

Distraction Discipline And Prayer

Zac Workun 21:37

message that I need today. Okay, just uh one more question for you, because this is a personal bent for us on the podcast. Um we we see it already, we know more of it's coming. How do we help do good youth ministry when everybody seems to be distracted, screen addicted, dopamine fueled? How how would you help us release graduates into college? What are some spiritual practices or mindfulness that we should have um that when they have a little more independence, they don't just fall into a doom scroll or comparison trap. Like how how how can how can we help you on this side of today?

Speaker 4 22:16

Bro, that's such a hard one. I mean, we don't have we don't have a solution yet, but yeah, like neither do I, to be honest. On the other side of the canyon, like holler back at us, man, let us know. No, I mean, just helping them with the tools and the vision for basically learning to feed themselves, yeah, you know, getting a taste of what it looks like to put your phone away, yeah, spend 15, 30 minutes alone with God, yeah, and really let his word speak. Yeah, and and then also prayer. Like students that long for a real encounter with God through prayer. There's actually, I mean, why do you know some ministries are really all about prayer, but some ministries are just the word or prayer, yeah. Some ministries are prayer, some ministries are the word, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm talking about? And we need to have both. We need to be spirit and truth, amen. And really let them encourage answers to prayer. Yeah, so like help them create a prayer list, specific things that they're praying over, yeah, even if it's just five to ten things people they want to see come to Christ, and daily pray over that list. And so, really, that's one of the chapters is from distracted to discipline. Yeah, come on, discipline and legalism are not the same thing.

Zac Workun 23:27

Yeah, okay. And so say more for the folks need to hear that because I feel like discipline, it feels like that's what you do when you're in trouble, but you're offering it more as a proactive plan.

Speaker 4 23:36

First Timothy four, it says, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness. And so just like an athlete disciplines himself to win the crown, yeah, first Corinthians nine, ready for the match. We do not run like a man running aimlessly, we beat our body, make it our slave, so that you know, after we preach to others, we would not be disqualified. So, man, I in that verse, 1 Corinthians 9, 25 through 27, it's basically saying we should be just as di disciplined as Olympic athletes are to winning gold medals, yeah, spiritually.

Zac Workun 24:05

So that's pretty come on, that's pretty disciplined. This this is if this is the thing of our life uh that is worthy and sanctification is uh is a lifelong trajectory, how do we commit to it in a way that is as worthy of the thing that it is?

Speaker 4 24:20

Yeah, and it's so it's grace-centered accountability. So if they're in that small discipleship group, yeah, or small group, closed small group that where there's accountability, it's not like, oh, you didn't do your quiet time, so God's gonna smite you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But it's like, hey, we get to do this, yeah, and spiritual disciplines put us on the path of God's power. Come on. And once you experience that, taste and see that the Lord is good. Yeah. Psalm 34, 8, right? It's like taste and see that the Lord is good. Time alone with God is an acquired taste. And so the more that we get students

Rebuilding Weekly Ministry For Depth

Speaker 4 24:51

in God's presence, the more they're gonna want it. Yeah, and they're gonna that's gonna sustain them into that next phase of life.

Zac Workun 24:57

Well, and so okay, if you were gonna go back in youth ministry today, because I think this is the pressure that a lot of us feel is that students are attending more infrequently. We see them less and less than we want to. What is a programming edit tweak challenge or change that you would make in the given week construct of youth ministry time that we have together? Yeah. Is there something you would toss, yeah, something you would edit, something you would keep? Oh, I like a little bit.

Speaker 2 25:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, let's go.

Speaker 4 25:27

Let's go. Talking to the collegiate guy, I don't have to live with this. Yeah, yeah. That's okay, that's okay. But um, but I do think if I had to choose, I like a large group because that's great for outreach, yeah, first impressions, like the larger funnel, you know. It's a confidence build. I mean, that I am not alone in my faith. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And then there's mid-sized group that has a place. Yeah, but if I had to choose between mid-sized groups and small discipleship groups, I would choose small discipleship groups.

Zac Workun 25:53

Smaller than small.

Speaker 4 25:54

Even on the same night. Okay. If you had new people there, you can find a way to kind of get them in. Okay. And uh, so if I had to choose one or the other, okay, I would do the top of the funnel, okay, and the bottom of the funnel, which is like more hardcore discipleship.

Speaker 3 26:08

Yeah.

Speaker 4 26:08

And I would be content, even if I had less people in small groups, yeah, and students in small groups, less engagement, getting disciples. Okay. And and training in feeding themselves, yeah, sharing the gospel with their peers, being held accountable, prayer life, yeah. Experiencing that, yeah, and really digging into those things. Okay. Over time, you'll see just overall your whole ministry be more healthy. Yeah. And that'll feed into the top of the funnel, and you'll end up being able to do all of the above. You'll yeah, even getting students discipling other students, yeah. If that's you know possible,

Encouragement And Multiplying Disciples

Speaker 4 26:42

that's a I heard it here first.

Zac Workun 26:43

Your small group isn't small enough. Yeah, come on, man.

Speaker 2 26:47

Amen. Amen.

Zac Workun 26:48

That's what I would do. Paul, we're at SBC. We're seeing friends walk around here. Uh, and a lot of our youth ministry friends that probably aren't here because they're at home planning camp, running camp, hosting VBS or something. What is a word of encouragement in the summer, this summer, that you would want youth ministry friends to hear from you about their work, their calling, and their worth?

Speaker 4 27:09

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we're asking God for generations for spiritual multiplication. Which is heavy.

Zac Workun 27:15

Can we just talk about generations? Like, I've barely lived one generation.

Speaker 4 27:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes spiritual generations can happen to literally outlive you. That's right. Sometimes it's like 2 Timothy 2, too. Yeah. What you've heard from me in the presence of many witnesses and trust of faithful men. Yeah. Teach others also. If I was a youth leader and you have all your other programs and things, I might choose three to four of my best. If I'm a guy, so I'm gonna choose three or four of my most motivated students. Yeah, and I would start that first discipleship group. Yeah, and I would just go over basic how to feed themselves and really let that multiply out and be healthy. And and the fruit will speak for itself. There'll be other students in there, like, oh, you're reading the word, you're praying, yeah, you're sharing the gospel. Yeah. What are you guys doing over there? Yeah, especially in the in the area of evangelism. Yeah, nothing motivates evangelism like fish on the stringer. Like when you're walking, I'm a fishing, uh fishing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you see a guy walking from the hole with a big thing on fish on the stringer, tell me how you caught that.

Zac Workun 28:13

That's right.

Speaker 4 28:14

That's right.

Zac Workun 28:14

So that just I laugh because my one of my Reddit, one of my Reddit streams is just people making the like reeling it in or whatever. Like today, like at breakfast, I literally watched someone reel in like a 300-pound tuna. And it is like the whole thing, I'm just like eating eggs, being like, come on, come on, because it is like I wasn't even there, but the excitement of like, oh, this is what it looks like, and I think that's the trust that we have. We're always trying to disciple the whole room, right? But the belief has got to be in the way of Jesus that the branch connected to the vine will flourish in fruit, right? Instead of trying to always harvest unto all of what we can to believe enough in that, yeah. Maybe that small or the small group isn't just looking at your leaders, but maybe it's the three or four for you. Yeah, and that's a powerful word.

Speaker 4 28:58

More time with fewer people will lead to greater lasting results for the kingdom of heaven. See, now that now you're just preaching trust. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome, man. That's what Jesus did. That's right. You have the 12, you had the three, and that multiplied from there. So we I think we need to change the scorecard in youth ministry. Okay. I think we yes, we love a big crowd. Yeah. All of us love a big crowd. We love a full room. But at the end of the day, it's disciples. Jesus called us to make disciples and multiply disciples. Come on. And so let's do both. Let's let's let's preach to the masses, but then disciple and train the few.

Zac Workun 29:29

Come on, man. Come on. Well, Paul, we're excited about Thrive. Drops this summer. Excited to have it as a resource for our students that are graduating or graduated in the ways in which they are going to what's next. And so, Paul Wooster, thanks so much for joining us today here at Youth Buddha Booster and SBC. We'll see you back next week.