Rethinking Relational Youth Ministry w/ Dr. David Odom

Before we know it, youth ministry can become really good at running events—and not as effective at making disciples.

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. David Odom and Deconstructing Youth Ministry, we tackle one of the biggest questions facing churches today.

How do we build student ministries that produce lasting faith, not just busy calendars?

We explore why teenagers today are both different and surprisingly the same. Students still wrestle with identity, belonging, purpose, and faith, but they’re doing it in a world shaped by social media, digital overload, and increasing isolation. That’s why relational youth ministry matters more than ever.

Dr. Odom shares two powerful truths every youth leader should remember:
✅ True discipleship happens in the context of relationships.
✅ The leader is the lesson.

We also unpack Dr. Odom’s research into the three arenas of effective youth ministry:
🔹 Teenagers in the youth group
🔹 Teenagers and their families
🔹 Teenagers in the congregation

We discuss practical parent ministry strategies, helping students connect to the larger church, creating meaningful service opportunities, mentoring teenagers into leadership, and avoiding the trap of measuring success by attendance, events, and programming alone.

🎙️ In this episode:
• The future of youth ministry
• Gen Z and Gen Alpha discipleship
• Relational ministry vs. attractional ministry
• Student leadership development
• Parent ministry strategies that actually work
• Building intergenerational church connections
• Why students need to be known, not just entertained
• Youth group trends worth keeping—and retiring

About David Odom

Dr. David Odom serves as a leader, researcher, and professor with decades of experience in student ministry. His book, Youth Ministry Deconstructed: Rethinking Your Ministry to Build Lasting Faith in Students, challenges churches to evaluate the assumptions behind modern youth ministry and reimagine discipleship for the next generation.

Transcript

Youth Ministry Fads

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast. This is part two of hanging out with our friend, Dr. David Odom, professor of student ministry here at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Or no bits. That's right. We call it no bits. We're familiar enough now. Yes. Yes. I do love we got a lot of acronyms in our world. We definitely do. It's just nice to shorten it for, you know, it's the Kevin from the office thing. Why use many words when few words can be good? Yeah. It's exactly that's a that's Southern Baptist life. That's right, that's right. Just this the stock chart of ideas and naming things. Yep. Well, uh, Dr. Odom, we talked in the first session a little bit the history of the youth industry, where we've come from, some of the tenets that hold up the roles and responsibilities of both the youth minister and the youth ministry, uh, the ways in which it moved from being maybe outside of the church as a revival, as a movement, as a campus club, as a culture, into a mainstay, into the programming and feature of what the church offers the family, offers the community. But then we talked a little bit how that maybe doesn't always be the right thing, doesn't always fit, doesn't always work. Uh, maybe for a lot of our listeners, it we we feel it not working. And so we wanted to talk some today in this conversation about what the future of youth industry might be, um, some of the research that you've done to that end, and some of the imagination that you might give to broaden the ways in which we think about the role of youth ministry in forming the faith of young people. But before we do that, I want us to imagine ahead to look back again. Um, what is something that you think from your work with youth ministry of being a youth ministry yourself and training youth ministers across the country? What's something in like 10 to 15 years we're gonna look back and laugh on? Like, what's what's the thing that like like we all we could we say chubby bunny right now? We're like, ah, I know, I get it, I get it. Or a t-shirt wall, right? How many of us had a t-shirt quilt wall of all the camp shirts that we did and stuff? But like what what's the thing that you're gonna think, like, oh man, when we look back, it's gonna be something.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Well, I don't know, it's probably tech related stuff. I mean, I think um how many screen games do we need? All those kinds of things. And I think of the QR codes. We have QR codes everywhere, right? And just it's all on our signage and our bullet boards, you know, QR codes on the screens. And so I mean, well, I don't know what it'll be, but surely it'll be something different. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

I if I can go back in time, I would have invested in three things Zoom, okay, yeah, uh on cloud tennis shoes, because my goodness, I had no idea. 2019, they didn't exist after COVID. It's all every person over 40 wears. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Uh and then QR codes, like they had to been around before, but only at like the most techie, nerdy silent, right. Another on the back of every character?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

It's everywhere, right, right. So I think we're gonna kind of look back and think, what is that? What is that black and white dot stuff we've got?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I'm taking pictures of the backs of things. Like, yeah, yeah. Just taking pictures of tags. It's it's it's it's odd, right? Let's go in a minute. It's odd. Yes, it's quick, it's easy, but for most of the time, just shortening the URL does a lot of the work. I always like it when it's the QR code um when your phone's already like like on a YouTube ad when they have a QR code sometimes, or it's like, well, how am I supposed to I'm already there? I'm already on my phone. How am I supposed to scan? How am I supposed to scan that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Crazy times, crazy times. Uh yeah, uh leave a drop in the comments what you think it might be. Uh if it's I I think it's trivia games. I I think I think we've we've we've we've done it. Guys, girls, we've played all the trivia with all the screen games, we've got to do it. We've done all the scream trivia games. We've done it. We've done the like we eliminated an answer. Like, listen, they're not running reruns of who wants to be a millionaire anymore. You don't have to run reruns of the trivia games that you got two years ago that you're really proud of. I guess. Sure. So it's so fun. It's so fun. But because they're always like tied to like a random theme. They're like, hey guys, it's birthday Wednesday. Somebody has a birthday. Let's look at these historical birthdays.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

That's right. Or celebrities.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Well, because they missed the that's not what's fun. The fun isn't the actual factoid. The fun is watching the kid you didn't think was gonna win win. Oh, yeah. Like you've got to have stakes. Like it's not really good, man. The facts aren't what's interesting about trivia games. It's the stakes. It's when the girls beat the boys or when the sixth grader beat the 11th grader. Oh man. That's that's the actual sauce of what's going on. It doesn't really matter that like Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln. Like I get it. For the history buff kid, or or you.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yes. So a lot of us, you know, are there. We're all in on that, but yeah, come on. No, come on. No, that's fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Well, I do want to ask, uh, so we talked a little bit um last episode, but even before this recording session, about teenagers

Are Teens Actually Different Today

SPEAKER_01 4:55

today. And I think I want to start there because when we talk about youth ministry, we're always imagining it from a context. So some of the things that we talked about in the deconstruction of youth ministry maybe are things that have grown over context and they've either uh calcified or they become ingrained or rooted in a way that have kind of superseded a generation of students. And if what we're doing is deconstructing to rebuild to reconstruct, we need to take seriously the students that are in front of us. Right. So I just wanted to ask you from your research, your opinion, your work in ministry, are kids today different? Is the 15-year-old in 2026 different than 86 or 96?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Like, right. That's a good question. Um, and so that I think the short answer is yes and no. And so I think there's two ways to think about it. That we think about it developmentally when we think in terms of of our teenagers are moving from childhood to adulthood, which is something that's universal since the beginning of time, yeah, uh, versus uh generational. Okay. And so so there's two parts there. So let's talk about the developmental piece. So I think that that there are elements of what we do in our in our interactions with students that um are are the same things that that you and I dealt with during adolescence. As we're thinking about who we are, our identity, we're thinking about purpose, we're coming to terms with with what we believe and our faith. And these these are kind of universal things.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Will I inherit the belief structure or values of my family?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Universal questions.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

All of those things, and I think that that those are still applicable to students today. I think that the the difference comes in when we recognize that our students are navigating and asking those questions in a different culture and a different environment. And that's where we get to the generational differences of what we have been talking about, Gen Z, and now we've got Gen Alpha, who are now part of our youth groups as well. And I think it's important for us to understand some of the nuance and see some of those differences of navigating some of those big questions in a different in a new culture. That's good. That's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Well, and I think that's one of the reasons why folks get so excited about some of the generational research. Right. Is it allows them to ask some of those questions anew, fresh. Right. Uh what what does it mean to be 14 today? I mean, right. That was, you know, so much conversation around millennials into Gen Z, Gen Z into Gen Alpha now, uh, are what are the forces at work? What are the modes of communication? What are the ways in which they find or make or or create identity? Um, and so I think that's one of the things when we talk about what youth ministry is, it it always does feel like it's both what has been and it is what it needs to be because it needs to be responsive. And so I guess that's some of the work I want to ask you about. You you you wrote in the book about the importance of constructing something differently. And so if we're gonna do the right work of youth ministry of not just trying to run whatever we have in front of us into the ground or into perpetuity, but we want to be faithful to serve the students that are in front of us. What are some of the actionable things that we should be about? I think you wrote about some things related to metrics that we kind of talked about last time, but then also environments, but just um the the the research and findings from your arenas study and then what that yielded for how youth ministry might need to operate.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Great,

The Three Arenas Of Youth Ministry

SPEAKER_00 8:26

great. Well, let's talk about it. So I I think there is a shift that we can make that it's it's not necessarily throwing everything out or feeling like I've got to start from scratch, but a real shift in our perspective. And so I talk about the arenas of youth ministry, three arenas. And the the three arenas are um teenagers in the youth group, our traditional view of of youth ministry. The second is teenagers and families, and so that's that parent uh connection piece.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

The parent ministry question everybody's trying to answer.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

That we're all trying to answer, exactly. And then the third arena is teenagers in the congregation and connecting teenagers to the overall church. And so uh so yeah, I'd love to talk a little bit about each of those.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Well, I I think the the first one, teenagers in the youth group, uh, is probably the one we'll start with and then we'll come back to because that's the one that feels like the obvious thing. Like this is this is the arena that maybe I have the most control. Right. If you're leading in the youth ministry, volunteer part-time, full-time, you're planning the youth ministry calendar.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

You're maybe deciding the teaching plan. You may be the one in front of them teaching or preaching, or you know, distributing small group materials, or picking the camp t-shirt, or where we go to camp or mission trip. Like you have a lot of choice, a lot of agency in this arena. Um, but that doesn't always give all the indicators for the students that live in that arena. So in that arena of students within their youth ministry, their youth group, which you still are advocating for, right? What are some of the ways in which it must be in the future moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Okay.

Arena One Relational Ministry Over Events

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Um I just want to to continue to call us back to relational ministry, right? Relational ministry has been a part of youth ministry, you know, from the beginning, but it is the tool. That's the thing. It is the tool, right. But what I think what happens oftentimes is though that we may default back to some of the the more of the attractional uh you know programming, and we sort of begin to to plan our calendar and operate our ministry from event to event. And we be we can begin to think that all that I'm doing in ministry is event planning.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

And and if I'm doing a lot of that, then I may be missing opportunities for me to re-engage, you know, relationally with students. And so I want to I want to do all I can to uh as an as a leader to develop relationships with my students, but then also challenging my volunteers uh with their relationships. For example, you know, when we're inviting an adult to come and facilitate a small group and and teach us a Sunday school of Bible study, oftentimes we're talking to them about curriculum and when it starts and what we want to do. What we're covering, what we're covering, all these things. But oftentimes we we don't talk about the desire that we would have for them to build relationships with those students that we that that will require them to have time outside of the hour of Bible study, right? That will require them to develop some connection with and interaction with those students. And so that's again just a small tweak, but it's an opportunity for me to to emphasize relationships over some of these other elements.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Well, but that makes so much sense when you think about how often people answer how are things going, and they talk about what they have planned or what they're going to teach. It's all it's all manners and mode of execution and delivery. We're gonna do this, and here's how they're gonna get it. And I think that it some way seeps into the other leaders in the ministry, maybe even other staff or folks that like, no, I just I want you to get through these questions. Like, I have given you a list of questions. I need you to get through these and the time allotted. Right. That's success, that's good execution and delivery. Right. But what you're offering is that maybe we don't get to most of the questions, if any of them, if what is happening is the relationship is strengthening in a way that that actually is carries more meaning than just content. I do, I do, I do worry that we have uh in in the fear of effectiveness, and we'll talk about this next time even more, uh, that uh uh we we've defaulted to content because we can provide that, which is you know very draining of of spiritual authority. Because it's my effort. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yes, yes. Well, and and certainly we want our our leaders to to be uh prepared and ready to facilitate that, but I also want to have biblical discussions, yeah. Have those discussions, but I also want to empower them to say that these relationships matter. And and and and when we think about the the uh the long-term impact and what our students are going to retain, they're gonna remember those connection points and that point that that my my leader cared enough for me. They asked me about what I was going through in my family, they prayed with me when I lost my grandparent, all these kinds of things that are relational and that are are going to have lasting impact. I think that it's also important because in our day and age when when we're our students are connected through social media, for example, yeah, um, there is a sense of social uh of connectedness to social media, but I think the it's a misnomer, right? Because this the statistics are telling us about our generation today that they're feeling more isolated.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

And they're feeling that sense of isolation, even being uh the the connected generation that they are uh uh digitally. And so when you and I, you know, um focus once again on relationships, it helps uh combat that perhaps that feeling of isolation that many students are feeling.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Well, and again, I think that um the the the veneer, right? The the glossy layer of we thought they were all connected, but it didn't feel meaningful, right? Is actually the thing that youth ministry is combating against.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Is the reason that youth ministry is stronger, powerful, uh is it's a place to be known in a place that doesn't offer that in a lot of other means and technologies and modes. Like this is like the superpower is the ways in which you can actually be known while you're here. Yeah. Um, the good news is that we actually love and see you for you. Definitely. Uh and you don't have to perform or you don't have to be something that you're not, and these leaders that love you like become the actual like rungs or coat rack that like the ideas hang on. Like I think so many folks are like, if I just teach them all the stuff, they'll know it. And then I just want to ask, how much of calculus do you remember? Right? Because you you if you were if you were in upper level math in high school or physics or chemistry, pick your poison. Yeah, like you learned all the content too. But if it didn't live anywhere or attached to anything, it was just quiz seven in October. And it wasn't, it wasn't actually like the meaningful thing. And the relationship is the scaffolding or the the coat rack where the stuff hangs. That's what your leaders are there for, is to be a way to understand uh as much as they are the conduit for understanding.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, that's so good. There's so good. And I think there are there's two axioms that I think relate to this part of the conversation that that I uh try to convey to to my students, uh youth ministry students here at seminary, is that uh the the first is that true discipleship can only take place in the context of relationships. So when we're talking about discipleship and we look at the New Testament example of Christ, what we see when Jesus is calling his disciples to follow me, he's inviting them into a relationship with him. Yeah. Right. And so that that call to follow me is relational. And the the relationships that we are building with our students are so key and foundational. The second is is similar, is to just remember that uh we we teach a lot of things. We teach we teach God's word, we teach the Bible, we teach theology, we're using the curriculum. But we need to remember that the leader is the lesson. The the individual you as the as the pastor, as the youth minister, your volunteers, uh, as they are teaching those lessons, they they need to recognize that uh that our students are looking for them to embody that and for them to see evidence of life change in them. Uh that that oftentimes when you and I are teaching about patience, we may read the scripture, study the passages, but if they don't see us being patient with them, yeah, or our own kids, or or being you know short with uh with other leaders, what is what's the real thing that's being communicated? So I think all of these things are the relational piece that we can give renewed emphasis to. That's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

All right, take us to arena number two. Okay.

Arena Two Parents As Key Influencers

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Uh if we're listening to the podcast, they know that Chad and I have studied some of this, uh, written about this, but the parent ministry question How does youth ministry get outside the walls of what we have planned into the home? Parents are the primary disciple makers, are they teenagers? Right. Agree, disagree, in what ways can we improve? Uh, all the research that we've done says that nobody feels like they're killing it, crushing it. Sure, right. And yet also nobody really has uh the secret sauce to fix it. Um but it matters, and you've named it as such, and I think imagining our work as such also matters. Like youth ministry can't just start start and stop um at you know the open and close of what we have on campus of the church. Far too limited, right? And yet, parents sometimes are more or less accessible for a number of reasons. And so, how do we do youth ministry in that arena well moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah. Well, that's it's a great question. And it's the question I think for us as we think about youth ministry, we've we've got to continue to address the this the parent issue. And the reality is that as the the greatest influence on the life of the student, uh, we've got to be willing to engage in some way and to acknowledge that it's not easy, to acknowledge that it's hard. But I don't want to back away from or shy away from something just because it's hard. I think I I want to to find a way to engage with moms and dads uh in any way possible because I really I believe then as a leader that their influence uh matters significantly. So I want to uh influence the influencer, right? I want to be uh that that that person sort of speaking into their life, encouraging in any way I can. So let's just let's talk about a a couple of things. I think for me, what it means and what the the three arenas do for me um as a youth pastor, as a youth leader on a weekly basis is just helping me sort of change my mindset a little bit in my my daily routine. Okay. That I'm setting aside time in my week to to set aside prep for the next sermon or the teaching or the planning for camp. That all needs to take place, but I have to carve out time in my schedule to say what what text can I send to a parent? What uh lunch meetings can I set up, what opportunities can I can I have to connect with a mom or dad at um a ball practice where the kids on the field, but mom or dad are in the stands and I can go and hang out with them. So I just have to be intentional about those things and realize that I've got to say, I'm gonna dedicate Tuesday afternoon or Thursday morning, whatever it is, to say, okay, I want to examine this parent piece and what can I be doing uh strategically in that space.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Well, and that language of intention, I think, is so important because not once did I hear you say we should plan a parent class.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Oh, okay, right.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Or should we offer a seminar, or we should add one more thing to do. No, like we're so prone to do. Right. Um it's not that you may not have those things, but your first steps of action, your first, you know, inside of wisdom is the ways in which we are positioned alongside them instead of creating opportunities for them. And I think that's right again, everybody's busy. Everybody's busy, nobody has a lot more time to give. Yeah. So how do we make much of the time we have?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

And that's intentionality. Well, and we and we we do those things because we're we're trying to do things in one shot. We're saying, okay, if I have a meeting and I get them all in the same room, I can convey some message of whatever that is, right? And there's going to be various uh degrees of success there. What I'm just gonna lean back on as much as I'm emphasizing the relational aspect in student ministry, is the relational aspect that I have with those parents, those moms and dads, whether they're a part of my church or outside of the church, I need to know them and get to know them. Yeah. And so it's less about me planning some gathering for them and more about developing those relationships. But I have to say, you know, I remember as a seminary student uh when our professors would talk about parent ministry and they would talk about these things even that we're talking about now. But I would hear, what I would hear or or think to myself is that means I need to have a parent meeting once a quarter. Yeah. To tell to tell moms and dads. That's good business. Yeah, I just want to I want to let them know what I'm planning to do with their kids. Right. That's what that's not what we're talking about. In fact, one of the things I like to share, if we think practically, this is just an example uh that may connect with some of your listeners, but it's it's an opportunity for me to think beyond my own ministry context to the broader church. For example, if I'm thinking about parent ministry, I want to realize that in my church, regardless of the size of the church, There are adult Sunday school classes that uh the the members of those adult Sunday school classes are the parents of teenagers in my youth group. So I should be more intentional in developing a relationship with those Bible study leaders. That I can view there's a sense in which I can view their Sunday school class, those Bible study class for adults as extensions of my own ministry and them as extensions of youth ministry workers because what are they doing? They're discipling, they're teaching, they're uh they have those adults in the room already. And so I just want to to make strides and efforts to make connections there.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, the the again at 26, I did not do this, but at at 40, we're trying to figure out how to, and that's showing up in the places they're already at. There you go. The adult life group, Sunday school, D groups like there's there's gatherings of parents that are parenting, not all of the students in the ministry, right, but a chunk of them that meet regularly. Like offer to share instead of a full meeting, an update. Stop by, bring donuts to that group. That's that's another group that needs you that you need to know. Exactly. And it's one of the things that we cannot dismiss because we didn't see it or we didn't make enough time for it because we focus so much on arena one. Right. We miss the opportunities of arena two. There you go. And I think that's where like some of the work that's not being done fruitfully just hasn't been imagined fully.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

There you go. There you go. And and just one other thing I might mention is that uh I I need to think maybe more strategically in the way in which I'm I'm planning um events for my students, things that we would traditionally be only for teenagers, that I could think maybe creatively about those being family-centered events, right? That I could think in terms of rather than it only being youth bowling night or you know, whatever kind of lame kind of thing, laser tag, that it could be a parent thing, right? It could be a parent and student thing or a family thing. That um that rather than every year it's it's youth mission trip, maybe every other year or every third year, it's family mission trip. And and you're calling families to come together and serve together. That's so good. So it's just it's just thinking about what I'm doing now, but thinking about it a little bit differently and thinking about ways in which I can I can make those intentional connections to parents.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Well, I would just want to add that one note because you said it about laser tag and about even serving through trips. Uh, most of what we have planned when we do plan things for parent ministry is not fun.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

These are parents of teenagers, and if you're planning an environment where they don't have to be around their teenager, like, yes, that is fun. But what's even more fun is getting to do teenage things without your teenager. Okay. Like having parent laser tag night or parent bowling night, I'm in. Right. Like as the parent of a fifth grader, like if we're gonna have this meeting anyway, let's have it over pizza in the bowling alley with the pins crashing and then we can go back to playing. Yes. Because most of what's true of students, especially now that student ministry has uh aged into the the xennials that are now parenting teenagers. So folks my age and a little bit older, is that we all have a youth group experience.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

And part of the draw of youth ministry is I want my kids to have what I had, which is that social connection that's spiritually rooted. Like I want my kids to have friends that love Jesus and a place that's safe for them to ask questions and be known.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

But that's true for me too. And to do parent ministry like a business meeting and not like a you know bunko meeting. It's it's it's missed. Right. It's a missed opportunity. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

No, it's opportunity square fruit. So it's things like uh we're we're gonna have we're gonna have a parent gathering, you know, and it's it's axe throwing, yeah. Yeah, and the bet highest score on axe throwing, uh the free free trip to camp or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

You know, those kinds of things the parents competing for schoolship and Dr. Oda. I mean, come on, patent pending. I mean, that loves it. Oh my gosh, there it is. It's just right there. Just dads showing up that are like, man, I you know, money's a little tighter, uh-huh, but I can win an arm wrestling matchup. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Excellent. We're going

Arena Three Serving Into The Church

SPEAKER_00 26:13

with it. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Uh Youth Ministry Arena 3, the whole church. Now, this is one that probably has been ink spilled on before. Um, whether it was some of the predecessors that wrote about the one-eared Mickey Mouse, sure. Church within a church. Right. There are some other cautionary tales of youth ministry becoming its own thing, right? Either living on the church parasitically uh or devoid of any kind of uh symbiosis. Like this is like the youth ministry only feeds and serves itself at the blessing and mercy of the leather, larger mother church. But like, how do we how do we do that right in 26 and beyond? How do we do that right in in an era uh where everybody feels tired and youth ministry feels defeated? How how do I how do I look at like I don't have near enough students that I want to have and our big plan is to be involved with the big church that may or may not feel like our speed? Like what do we do?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Right. Well, all of those are are you know valid concerns and the realities of ministry today? And uh I certainly, you know, I want to as a leader be willing to uh you know address each of those and and try to navigate that. But I think that big picture wise, I think our our problem is that generally speaking, we do a pretty good job of leading teenagers to fall in love with the youth group, but they're not necessarily falling in love with the church. And for them to, you know, develop lifelong faith and be a part of a congregation and a faith community for the rest of their lives, they need to develop those connections now. Yeah. And so I just have to, again, carve out time in my week to think strategically about ways in which I can develop and help my students with those connections. And primarily here I'm thinking of service, yeah. Right. So I'm not talking about a new program or more time or doing more. I'm just helping my students be aware of the ways in which they can serve on a regular weekly basis in our church and in our community and on mission around the world. And uh what I have found with my research is that service is the primary means in which uh we help students connect to the church.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

And for them to move from it just being a place I attend, or it's that church down the street to it's my church. It's mine. It's my church. And that's what we want. And so I'm again, I'm helping my teenagers make those connections. And what I'm doing as a as a pastor, as a minister, is saying, okay, what are areas of my church where students are not serving? Yeah, where they may or not feel necessarily feel welcome at the moment. Yeah. So what relationships do I need to develop to say, are there opportunities for some of your volunteers to apprentice or mentor some of my students who have interest in those areas?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Oh, the the best Sunday ever at our church is when we have like the kids and students help out at like greeting when the greeting team is not just the two um older people on the door, right? But a fourth grader and a 14-year-old mom. Like it just, it's like, oh, right, this is who we are. And that's way too small to miss. Like that's there's some of these that are like it's just a matter of thinking them through what could be and imagining, and then also relinquishing, I think, some of the control of like, well, I need them where I need them. Like one of the hard ones to hear is man, you have a really great vocalist and the youth worship band. Maybe she should sing or audition to sing with the whole church. And maybe you don't get her as part of what y'all are doing. Right. Because it's pretty awesome to have Kelly sing with the whole group, the whole congregation. Right. Like, so it's youth ministry, isn't it? It's it's uh we're farming up and not holding back. Exactly. I think it matters.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah. And and making those tough calls. And I think that we do some of this in in youth ministry already when we have uh youth sundays, you know, and those kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

But we whether those are uh uh uh uh token celebrations. Hard to say, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and you know, some some youth Sunday where some of the older ladies left because the drums were on stage.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Okay, the drums are on stage, right? And you know, and the sermon was 10 minutes because you know they kind of, you know, whatever. See, if they would have stayed for that, it would have great that would have been a good thing. We would have, we would have, we would have meet, beat the Methodist to the cafeteria, but that's right. I I think what we want to do is move from it being just once a year to being ongoing opportunities, right? And for me to be thinking strategically about ways in which students can serve within the youth group and serve within in the church, and that'd be a big piece of that. And and similar to what I was talking about earlier about opportunities for moms and dads to uh to be to be interacting together, is that I want to be intentional about leading my students to participate and engage in uh in uh meaningful ways within the the church congregation as well. Where we're having, for example, maybe a a serve day that the church is promoting, primarily perhaps to adults. Yeah, right. But I would want to bring my students and say, okay, yeah, we're gonna be connecting and we're gonna be a part of that, and we're serving alongside church members, adults, not outside of the youth ministry. Yeah.

unknown 31:19

Okay.

Balancing Time Across All Arenas

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I want to bring it back to the first one. Okay, because this is a little bit of our segue that we'll get into the next episode. Yeah. Our next part. If we're thinking a lot about parents and we're thinking a lot about the rest of the church, inevitably we have less time to think about what is inside the arena of youth ministry.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

If this is all taken to be true, is it gonna feel like we're gonna offer less there to offer more in other places?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, yeah. I think it's I think it's a valid concern. I think that for for me, um, I I want to, you know, I want to carve out that time and realize that okay, yeah, I'm taking away, but but it's an opportunity for me to uh to uh to re-engage and refocus in a different way that it's less about taking or subtracting time away from my my planning or my involvement with students uh as much as it is sort of building those bridges to these other areas that I know are gonna have great and lasting impact. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

So we're gonna pick it up uh a little bit more in part three, but we wanted to end this time a little bit fun with a game of keep it, kill it.

Keep It Kill It Speed Round

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Okay, let's see. So in the spirit in the spirit of youth ministry games, right? I'm gonna read a list of things, and then you're just gonna say whether you want to keep it, which means, yeah, in some version of it, it should stick around in youth ministry. Let's not abandon yet, or kill it. Uh let's let's probably get it rid of it. Like let's just go ahead and yes, there's probably a way that we could salvage it, but it's just easier if we get rid of it. I'm I'm with you. Are you ready? Are you ready? Okay, yeah. All right, Dr. Odom on the speedrun. Here we go. Keep it, kill it. Uh, number one, lock-ins. Uh kill it.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Dodgeball. Uh keep it. Okay. Uh cheap pizza. Oh, you gotta keep it. Okay. Okay, yeah. Uh camp t-shirts. Uh keep it. Okay. Uh Sunday school. Keep it. Okay. Uh Wednesday night youth.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Uh keep it. Church softball league. Oh, wow. Okay, man. I don't know. There's an opportunity for engagement relation. So I'm gonna keep it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Uh uh youth band. Uh yeah, keep it. Okay. Uh fall retreat.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Uh, keep it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Uh and then last one, uh, student leadership team. Student leadership team.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Yeah, definitely keep it. Keep it. Yeah. Yeah. Lean into that. Awesome, awesome. Great.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Well, Dr.

Closing And Part Three Teaser

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Odo, thank you so much for hanging out. We'll be back for part three next week when we talk about how in the heck we could make all this change and still keep our sanity too. Until then, we'll see you next time.