Ready for a rollercoaster ride of emotions this holiday season? Ever tried to surprise your high-end friends with a gift only to find it relegated to the 'middling' category? Grab a cup of cocoa and join us as we traverse the holiday gift-giving terrain, highlighting the importance of backstory and adventure in choosing presents. We'll even tell you why your friend who has no inkling about a multi-tool could end up loving it as a gift!
Venturing into deeper waters, we grapple with the delicate issue of helicopter parenting in youth ministry. Through our exploration, we underline the need to examine each scenario in its unique context and how it transcends individual parents, pushing us to consider the home and generational backdrop. But amidst these challenges, there's the golden opportunity of nurturing relationships in youth ministry. We uncover the essence of deep discipleship and faith formation in impacting the next generation while unearthing the surprising ministry opportunities with parents. So buckle in for an enlightening journey of faith, relationships, and yes, some chuckles along the way!
Ready for a rollercoaster ride of emotions this holiday season? Ever tried to surprise your high-end friends with a gift only to find it relegated to the 'middling' category? Grab a cup of cocoa and join us as we traverse the holiday gift-giving terrain, highlighting the importance of backstory and adventure in choosing presents. We'll even tell you why your friend who has no inkling about a multi-tool could end up loving it as a gift!
Venturing into deeper waters, we grapple with the delicate issue of helicopter parenting in youth ministry. Through our exploration, we underline the need to examine each scenario in its unique context and how it transcends individual parents, pushing us to consider the home and generational backdrop. But amidst these challenges, there's the golden opportunity of nurturing relationships in youth ministry. We uncover the essence of deep discipleship and faith formation in impacting the next generation while unearthing the surprising ministry opportunities with parents. So buckle in for an enlightening journey of faith, relationships, and yes, some chuckles along the way!
a snap.
Speaker 2:Hey, ho, ho ho and Merry Christmas to you from the Ethan and Shoe Booster Podcast. My name is Zach Workin', hanging out in the Chile Wintery Garage with my best friend, chad Higgins. What's?
Speaker 1:up buddy.
Speaker 2:Merry Christmas to you, friend.
Speaker 1:I'm over here, I'm not just playing on my phone, oh, my gosh last minute Christmas shopping no no, no, I am looking up what I would like you to buy me for Christmas. I hold it on prime Shipping.
Speaker 2:Is it on prime? Can I get it in two days to you? What are you finding? Oh my gosh, don't mind him. Anyway, we're really glad you're here for this episode of Booster. It's about to become really expensive, I guess. Did you figure out what I'm going to get you?
Speaker 1:for Christmas. Yeah, I need that watch. Oh my gosh, that watch that I sent you. You don't have to buy the whole thing, okay, okay, just you know, maybe you know contribute to it. Well, let's ask our listeners.
Speaker 2:Does anybody else have a friend that really has a taste for finer things and maybe would say things like I know you can't afford this. I didn't. I've never said that I know you can't afford this, but if you wanted to chip in as part of it, maybe I could talk enough friends into buying me this really extravagant watch that I definitely don't need but would love to have.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing.
Speaker 2:My man loves a good watch. He loves a good watch.
Speaker 1:I just I think that wouldn't gifts be so much better?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that instead of all the people in your life getting you a $40 present, oh well, some of us would love to have some $40 gifts from some of the people in our maybe you need more people in your life.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's it, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 2:The problem is you're like, yeah, you know, I've got my wife and my kid and they only get me two things. Dude, this is the argument to have 40 friends 40 times 40. My man, you're basically there, you're basically there we're talking.
Speaker 1:now we're jumping out. I'm getting a Rolex.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you're going to, I know you, you're going to get, you're going to get a taste for the nice one and you're like, you know it's like it's left. It would be wrong for me to not, you know, shop a little.
Speaker 1:I just feel like, instead of like, instead of kidding just all of these like dingy things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're fine.
Speaker 1:If I could have a, if they could all just pull together.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's ask what is the most middling gift you've ever received? I'm you don't have to name who got it for you, but what's the most middling gift you've ever received? Or what is like the most, like not throwaway gift, but like what's the most. I can't answer this. What's the most midgift, what's the most like mid thing?
Speaker 1:This is not fair. We probably need to cut this because, like, what if I name it and what if that person were to watch?
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll go ahead and say mine. When people buy me a random bag of coffee, it's like they didn't really try. Like like, if you're going to get me a bag of coffee, if you're going to get me a bag of coffee, I need a story too. You can't be like what does Starbucks got you some? Like I get that's $20 that you spent on me for coffee. That's great, I love you. But that was. There was no thought, there was no interest, there's no backstory. I need some adventure.
Speaker 1:I got you coffee last year.
Speaker 2:You did, he got me but. But. But the coffee you got me is hey, man, this one seemed like you got me a sample pack.
Speaker 1:I did, there was a sample pack.
Speaker 2:There was some different flavors and stuff.
Speaker 1:If you had gone to Starbucks, if you had gone to like.
Speaker 2:Costco. Like dude, I got you a big old bag of generic coffee. That's. That's kind of mid.
Speaker 1:I would have appreciated that.
Speaker 2:You would have used it, but it's not a good gift. It's a middling gift.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry Okay.
Speaker 2:I now I'm on to your question because I was thinking of very specific. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya ya.
Speaker 1:Why does?
Speaker 2:it feel good to.
Speaker 1:That makes no sense for you. Oh, I like this game. It'll be the like utility plier things that are like the knockoff Leatherman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they have like the knife that comes out of the side, and who does not love a good multi-tool?
Speaker 1:A multi-tool, a multi tool, you got a multi-tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're a man that likes to have see. That to me, is like I love a good multi-tool. That's my life. Think about me, though it's not even using it. You're like I don't. When am I going?
Speaker 1:to use this. What am I going to do with this? When am I going to use this?
Speaker 2:There's too many applications. Yeah, it could be for anything.
Speaker 1:I do Get out of here with this gift you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like okay, so what? What's your safe gift? So, middling, what's your safe gift?
Speaker 1:I made a joke about coffee, the safe gift If you're wanting to get me.
Speaker 2:If someone wanted to bless you this holiday season, what's the safe gift for Chad Higgins?
Speaker 1:It's the Breitling watch.
Speaker 2:We are starting a $5 charity fund. If you want to contribute applications to $5 to get Chad the watch of his dreams, we'll drop a link below.
Speaker 1:And if we, you know, and I'll take the service as well. So either one.
Speaker 2:It is a handsome watch.
Speaker 1:It is a handsome watch.
Speaker 2:And I will say you've been wearing a watch more now than I've ever seen you before. That's my oldest son. He wants a watch because some of his buddies have like the knockoff, like Apple watch, because they're in like late elementary and that's kind of cool. But he has like a $20 Pokemon watch they never wears. So I made the deal with him Like you wear this watch three weeks in a row, I'll buy the other one, no strings attached. But you got to charge and wear this one for three weeks in a row. It lasted. You want to get so many days? Oh, three, two days. He wore it, he charged. He wore it. He wore it again. It died. He charged it. He never pulled it back off the charger until I reminded him that it's like hey, you still have that watch. He's like, oh yeah. And I'm like we're good, we're good, we're good, we're good. Oh yeah, what about you?
Speaker 1:What is then I mean for you, like, all joking aside, like the safe gift, or like the no, like. What do you want for Christmas?
Speaker 2:Oh man nothing. I have everything Um pins pins and the peace and peace, world, peace world peace.
Speaker 1:You want pins?
Speaker 2:No I don't know if I want pins, uh, okay, okay, safe gift for me that I will always take and I will always use any kind of like field notes or moleskin notebook, like the kind of medium to small one, or whatever I I tear through them. I try to keep some of them, but it's like, just like it's the right size, right paper. If you get me a stack of those, I love them. They actually came up with a subscription this year that I'm really excited about, like just having delivered to the house.
Speaker 1:So the town of live in? Yeah, they've opened a stationary store to their. Okay, I need to take you when you do, you do.
Speaker 2:You do a paper goods, do you say uh.
Speaker 1:I I don't know how well it's going to do In my medium sized town when summer hits and the students are gone.
Speaker 2:Uh, it is. It is a very cool little boutique shop.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, it's fun to have boutique. Uh, this podcast, we're finishing up some stuff on relationships.
Speaker 2:We actually had a question to kind of base some of this around. That came out of a relationship. That came out of relationship One of uh, a dear friend former intern, now youth minister. Uh, he, well, he was, he was. I love the guy, I love the guy, um, and.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if you've heard of him, but I think I love the guy. I love the guy. Um had some questions long time listener, had some questions related to already and we I love the timeline he's on we're, we're here in the holiday season and he's already asking questions about sponsors at camp next summer. So, my man, thank you.
Speaker 2:Some of you guys haven't even thought about some of you are still wondering if we're going to go to camp next summer.
Speaker 2:Um, but bless you for already thinking about your sponsor situation for camp next summer.
Speaker 2:And so the setup is this and we're going to ask the broader question around it uh, basically, has uh a parent, a mom involved in the ministry it's a little uh over invested the term that youth ministry circles might use as helicopter mom and she wants her kids to go to camp, but she's only gonna go, they're only gonna go. She gets to go, and I guess there was a little bit of stuff last summer when she went that it was a little disruptive a little bit. She was there but she wasn't like Sponsor level help, like she was more just like an adult chaperone who was there for her kids and maybe wasn't there for the whole purposes of the event and the camp, and I guess already Camp conversations are happening. She's like, well, I'm going right, and so he feels a little bit of the pinch that he wants her kids to go to camp but she was not a value-added asset. What does he do? What does he say to her? Chad Higgins, maybe give us some wisdom.
Speaker 1:Okay, first of foremost. Yes just because I don't want our podcast to become a Show that answers individual questions. Yes, and part of our View in student ministry is Wisdom through context.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah why, there are no generic answers, only wise, contextual ones, right?
Speaker 1:Because if we were to get on here and be like Helicopter, parents should never go to camp right or always go to camp.
Speaker 2:Take parents, no matter what they say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think that's actually the records.
Speaker 2:Scott and I are gonna have a separate conversation about his unique situation, but I do think in the relationship vein We've been in, parents that maybe Are a little bit difficult to navigate is something that, like not enough people are talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all that, all that to be said, we want to make sure that this is Applicable enough that it goes beyond one side, and so that would be the thing that I would first and foremost lead with is Knowing your unique context situation, because there's so many things that are involved in this. Yeah this is why I'm such, I'm so against the generic or vanilla and Eric like Facebook, pose yeah of like hey guys, here's three paragraphs.
Speaker 2:my situation, yeah, and you solve it in three lines of text right Any can do it and if you've been this person, I apologize.
Speaker 1:No, I don't apologize, you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 2:Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, filthy animal In a Facebook post where you don't have the context, you don't? Yeah, you are going off of your preference and what you like and what you would do your lived experience? Yeah, you don't know this man, senior pastor, right, you actually don't know the mom or the home situation.
Speaker 2:You don't know the kids.
Speaker 1:You don't know what her kids have been through right of, why that mom may be nervous or what that mom may have been through in her life that she's nervous to send her kid off camp. You don't know any of those contextual questions to actually be able to give wisdom to an individual Situational situation. And I think when we try to lead generally, then we send people down paths to make choices and decisions that are never black and white.
Speaker 2:So, all that to be said, we paint too broadly to be helpful.
Speaker 1:All that to be said, the mom shouldn't go. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:She should never get to go.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, that's not it, man, one of the things that I would say in dealing with let's just talk about helicopter parents that want to be very, very involved I would say that there are things that we, as youth ministers, need to think through and understand that, yes, there may be things to jump through with parents that are like this, but my experience, when done correctly, some of those people can become really great assets for your student ministry. And I think having conversations of knowing why mom thinks it's important for them to go those kind of things and listen. Sometimes the information that we find out is hard for us, but it can be growing for us. Some parents who are helicopter parents that want to be at events, like it or not and let's pull our toes back there is a level of distrust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe inherited.
Speaker 2:The distrust may not be specifically you it may be generational Again, what you shared earlier, that you don't know what that mom's been through, what camp or church or ministry has been in her life. You don't know what the specifically what the previous administration that your predecessor may have been like or other churches they've been a part of, but it may be you too. But that's, I think, part of one of these we've been talking this whole season and booster of revival in our own relationships, some of relational health. Relational revival is relational restoration and there may be some reconciliation that needs to be done and this may be a way to pursue that. So it's important things to note.
Speaker 1:One of the things that and my time as a student minister. Anytime I had parents that wanted to go to camp, we would have specific sit down conversations with those parents and talk through the reality of what it would look like at my camp. Yeah, obviously they're still the parent of their kid, but they're coming to camp. They had extra roles.
Speaker 2:You can't just stand around and be mom If you're coming to camp, like you gotta be mom to more than just your kids, you can be a mom, but I need you to be a dorm mom or a small group mom, not just mom to your daughter. There's too much at stake.
Speaker 1:And giving them opportunities to serve in that way and so setting it up in those things, letting them know expectation, those kind of things. But I think, as a youth pastor, I think it is important to remember that is those kids' mom and so at the end of the day, you do have less authority in those kids alive than their parent does, and that's okay, and I think that we need to realize that's not going to be an end-all break-all that's going to ruin camp of mom wanting to flesh things out or have conversation, if anything. Looking back at parents that went to camp, the one that stands out to me that I often saw was like there would be some work around from some of our like medicine policy. Okay, that one seemed to come about that I would see happen every once in a while.
Speaker 1:Right, it was like their kid needs Advil. You know what? I mean it would never be like prescribed drugs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be like well, my kid got a headache so I gave him a you know and those kind of things, or like they didn't like what the dinner was, so I made him a special little treat and you're like okay, but actually it was just like a dietary thing, or they just always wanted your grilled cheese. Like again, I think what you're saying that's so important is like it's not that they can or cannot show up to camp, but it's one of the things that we talked about a lot and one of the things I love camp is that it is this like lived community and so there is a little bit of a trade. Yeah, she's mom. So I'll push back and say yeah, she's mom. But when we go to camp we live as this larger family together. That's part of the camp experience.
Speaker 2:It's why it's okay when your kids at camp, even though they paid to be there, they're going to have some kind of KP duty, because when we're here at camp as a community, we all pick up our stuff Like you didn't pay enough that we have hired like cleaning people. Right, we don't have a full time custodian for your Mountain Dew cans, we take turns in rotation kind of living this like communal life and so, yeah, she's your mom, but when we're all here, we all have shared expectations as part of that that's camp specific, that's not like weekly or weekend specific. But I do think again, it's not just about we want you at this event camp. Especially at least in the way that like has been important in my life and others is the shared community as much as the like event stakes or programming of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I just think. I think any of those situations like having a conversation in a peaceful manner, that's not accusatory, that's not you know already, you as a youth pastor, coming in with preconceived notions of what it's going to be like, and all those kind of things, I think you have the opportunity to come in, win some you know like trust with those parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially this early, like I love that this is on the table here now, well ahead of summer, and we're not having this conversation a week before camp, because that's some of the work. And I think to broaden the question about just ministering alongside parents, that again maybe they're not right or wrong, maybe you're not right or wrong, but there's just friction, right, there's just a difference of philosophy or relationship or leadership or autonomy. Again, we serve in student ministry to equip, to care, to nurture and so, yeah, mom and dad are going to be a far wadier authority in the life of the student, but some of the things that we get to be is hopefully a partner, and a partner gets to nudge and push and grow, and that takes time and patience and listening.
Speaker 1:Well, and to me, to me, questions like this and I'll be honest, I think I have a little bit different perspective now Some you know, 20 years later than I was early in student ministry, specifically before I had my own kids that I think sometimes as youth ministers we have this idealistic view of what camp's going to be and what it's going to mean for our student ministry.
Speaker 2:Don't tread on my camp plan. It's going to propel us to growth and all this kind of stuff and get on the wagon. Let's go, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The reality for that kid. Okay, let's just take that kid and not remember, not talking about that one scenario but you've got a parent. That wants to come for their kid. What's going to have longer impact in that kid's life? Yeah, that you had a killer camp. Yeah, their eighth grade year yeah. Or hopefully, if we do camp right and we're thoughtful about it enough that it does create this like, hopefully, real positive bond.
Speaker 2:Stronger, faithful familial bond with mom. And I mean again, it's the family mission trip.
Speaker 1:Mom's going to be in that person's life a lot longer than you are. We pray, we hope so. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So again, one of the things I think as a touch point for both this episode and this season of ministry that we're in, I think is evaluating the space that we give to relationship building. I'm really proud of my friend for having enough. Again, we named early. Maybe there's some growing trust and edge of growing trust, but clearly there was enough to have the conversation and I think to treasure that, to acknowledge it and say thank you so much for even like the easy thing to flip the table would be really parent be like well, last year was this we're never coming back and just to totally check out, but just to like the cheese fighting for her kids, for you, who's currently like wrestling in a text message or a phone call with a parent about something.
Speaker 2:The fact that the communication channels even open enough to have the dialogue is a gift, and I think acknowledging that before we work towards an outcome is really important, because there's a lot of things right now especially that would just be either like I'm all in or I'm all out, and so to kind of navigate expectations and plans and relationships inside of a community like this is what we need more and more of as the church. And just before it tires you out, I want to remind you like this is kind of the beautiful messy work more than the actual messy games. Like this is the good messy work of ministry, of trying to figure out everybody who has a plan and an aim to guide us back to. What does it mean? To be better, more faithful disciples of Jesus. That means give and take all around, and it also means coming together in a way that we are seeking and discerning faithfulness, and so Chad give us.
Speaker 2:It was a year ago. We started doing not just podcasts but podcasts with video. What are some thoughts as the end of this year? Maybe some goals or hopes or relational things. We talked about gifts and things that we give. What are you hoping, thinking, what you've learned from this year that you're going to carry into next year?
Speaker 2:Oh man, like for myself, personally, for yourself personally, maybe for us as this team of podcasting and doing, what are some things from 2023? We expanded some things. We committed to some things. Are there things even now, just as we've been sitting with the last few months of having traveled and done and trained and heard from so many folks that are really fresh on your minds, we march into a new calendar year, a new advent year of things when it comes to ministry, and youth ministry in particular, but shepherding and leading well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me in this coming year and just for us in general whether you're watching or not, I know that we have loved to have a good time on here, but one of our hopes and prayers for not only our podcast when it first began but like youth ministry booster as a whole now is that we continue to raise the bar of what it means to be a faithful great youth pastor and maybe jokingly, maybe very seriously talked about armchair wisdom that we sometimes like to throw out and even this episode of like.
Speaker 1:we're talking about situations with relationship, where everything has deeper context to it yeah. And part of being a minister and a good pastor is someone who walks slowly with their people and listens to the Lord, and so I pray and I hope not only will we continue over this next year to fight for that for our people, but you as the watcher or listener picks up that calling as well and we fight against some of the stigma.
Speaker 1:I think that student ministry has of like. I want it to die of this idea that youth pastors are like slobby and don't turn in their stuff on time and all of these kind of things that we as a community can really raise the bar of the profession that we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the collective effort. One of the things that I think and we've talked about it in our conversation about nurturing relationships with students so many of us long for deep discipleship, deep ministry. I mean I really hope that we continue as ministers to cultivate our own sense of deep. One of the things that I think is ministry is not easy, but sometimes it can be simple with a lot of complexity is that I mean, we're ministering to the same age group year over year and so there isn't necessarily a challenge from them to deepen in our faith and I think that's the calling that other ministers actually place on each other is to either in the proverbs way of iron sharpening iron or deep calling out to deep.
Speaker 2:Like you're going to have great moments where an eighth grader or ninth grader is going to surprise you about what they said, but I hope that it's not a surprise because you yourself are not at a depth of closeness and intimacy in the word and in prayer. Like I'm more excited for what land and learn versus like land and spoken where I didn't even been there. Like I hope that there is a depth that you are pursuing, a committedness that you have. So many youth ministers are hoping for great things from this generation next now, but I hope that they wouldn't give up on themselves. I hope that at 27, 37, 47 in student ministry you wouldn't feel like your faith formation was done, and that that curiosity and wonder and depth and intimacy with the Lord would be so true in you that the overflow of that longing would spill out into your ministry more than you just like planning it or calendaring it, which we're often guilty of.
Speaker 1:That's good. Relationships are important and I think that, whether it's this scenario or another, when we have people that frustrate us or want to be involved, to be mindful that your work is not just a set lineup things of checkboxes, and sometimes you may have parents that want to come and you don't understand why they want to come. But don't miss the opportunity to share the gospel with a parent as well, because God may do something in the life of that parent at camp that you wouldn't have thought about.
Speaker 2:And maybe the gift you didn't even know you needed. All right, we'll see you next year.