Could you eat faster than Zac?
No One's Going To Take It!
Join Zac and Chad, where we kick things off with a hilarious debate centered around Zac's rapid-fire eating habits and his lofty claim of inhaling 50 hot dogs in four minutes. We even ponder on what would be the most embarrassing food record to hold. It's a light and hearty start to an episode that gets you laughing and wondering about your own eating speed.
ParaSocial Relationships
Then, things take a more profound turn. We journey back to the 1950s as we explore the realm of parasocial relationships and their tremendous influence on present-day youth culture. From their roots in celebrity culture to their evolution and widespread acceptance, it's eye-opening to examine how even individuals with a minute online presence can significantly impact young people's relationships. As we steer this conversation, we also analyze these relationships' potential hazards and how they can impact their connection with higher powers, like God.
Improving Our Present Condition
But we're not all about identifying problems; we aim to bring solutions to the table. Therefore, in the concluding part of our discussion, we delve deep into the importance of relationships in youth ministry. We emphasize the need for safe social spaces for students and meaningful connections among youth ministers. We believe that humor and fun serve as glue in cultivating these connections, and we take you along as we look into how this can elevate the ministry.
Could you eat faster than Zac?
No One's Going To Take It!
Join Zac and Chad, where we kick things off with a hilarious debate centered around Zac's rapid-fire eating habits and his lofty claim of inhaling 50 hot dogs in four minutes. We even ponder on what would be the most embarrassing food record to hold. It's a light and hearty start to an episode that gets you laughing and wondering about your own eating speed.
ParaSocial Relationships
Then, things take a more profound turn. We journey back to the 1950s as we explore the realm of parasocial relationships and their tremendous influence on present-day youth culture. From their roots in celebrity culture to their evolution and widespread acceptance, it's eye-opening to examine how even individuals with a minute online presence can significantly impact young people's relationships. As we steer this conversation, we also analyze these relationships' potential hazards and how they can impact their connection with higher powers, like God.
Improving Our Present Condition
But we're not all about identifying problems; we aim to bring solutions to the table. Therefore, in the concluding part of our discussion, we delve deep into the importance of relationships in youth ministry. We emphasize the need for safe social spaces for students and meaningful connections among youth ministers. We believe that humor and fun serve as glue in cultivating these connections, and we take you along as we look into how this can elevate the ministry.
Snack.
Speaker 2:Hey, and we're back with another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster podcast. My name is Zach Workin. Sit in the garage, my best friend, chad Higgins. Okay, hold on hold, on hold, on hold on. Cut the music. Whoa.
Speaker 1:Hard cut on the music.
Speaker 2:Do you ever feel like something that you do is totally normal and then you find out people that are your friends have been saying things about you behind your back?
Speaker 1:No, never behind your back, 100% to your face.
Speaker 2:It's just. It's just. We all have social patterns. We all have social behaviors that are like the things that we do, that maybe we take for granted.
Speaker 1:But apparently Okay. First of all, social behaviors is and we'll get to that in this episode what you do, what I do. Okay, let's just no more pausing on this. That is, he is the fastest eater I have ever seen in my life. Not trying to win some trophy. You eat so fast. It's not fast to me. What are you like, my guy? There have been moments where I'm on the other side of the table and I like I curl my fingers in because I'm afraid that I'm a loose one.
Speaker 2:It takes so many.
Speaker 1:I eat faster than most, but I don't feel like it's that fast Most my God, zach, it is like okay, this afternoon, without you knowing, we went to, we had lunch together, we had a salad place, healthy lunch option.
Speaker 2:We brought it back to your house.
Speaker 1:Boxed salad. Yeah, I knew I was like, okay, he's going to be done didn't have big breakfast.
Speaker 2:He had toast for breakfast. Didn't have big breakfast.
Speaker 1:But because here's what happens most of the time when I have lunch with you is you finish in the same time it takes for a Tesla to drive you know, zero to 60.
Speaker 2:Just no ramp up, it's just no resistance, no resistance.
Speaker 1:The only thing is is it's not noticeable, Exactly.
Speaker 2:I didn't notice it. Well, we'll save that for later.
Speaker 1:Like I don't look over there and there's not like smoke coming off your spork or anything. Am I a?
Speaker 2:sloppy eater Am.
Speaker 1:I making loud noises? No, that's what I'm saying, like.
Speaker 2:I shoot with my mouth closed.
Speaker 1:You'll be talking the whole time all these kind of deals, and so that's the thing is like you don't just look at you and you're like why is that guy eating so fast?
Speaker 2:You're just like his plate's empty before mine. Every time, every time.
Speaker 1:And it's not like oh, you finished, you know a little bit, a little bit ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the first one done always.
Speaker 1:The likelihood that I'm and this is not an exaggeration I know. Anytime there's like a banter on a podcast, it's like how much is that is made? Up right the likelihood that I'm a fourth of the way into my meal when you're like, all right, what's?
Speaker 2:next, you know to be dessert anybody. I could be a little more.
Speaker 1:It's wild, sorry, so I guess it's just you're taking massive bites, right? I maybe asked to be.
Speaker 2:you know, Joey doesn't share food. You know, like I do chew, I chew, although I've been told by my gastro brother-in-law doctor, most folks in Oklahoma don't chew, so maybe I'm one of those that doesn't chew enough. I don't think you chew. I don't know, you can't, you can't Inhaling.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Are you considered being a competitive eater?
Speaker 2:I think this is the question where we ask the group right Is that something we need to pursue? Is there is this a life dream for others that I need to accomplish?
Speaker 1:Zach, here's the deal. If you're with me, I need you to leave it in the comments, shooting the message. Whatever you need to do, prop him up with encouragement. Zach, you don't know how much I would enjoy being coach. No, I'm not going to be intimate in this with you. I want so bad to get to go to the eating competition.
Speaker 1:Some competition with you and get to film it, so these fine folks can just see it, because here's the deal. Now I think if it was your actual professional competitors like you can't stand up to those guys.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. They've been training.
Speaker 1:But if I take you to Dibble, Oklahoma, just to hit it up.
Speaker 2:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean and you enter into the county fair, the corn competition. Yeah yeah, yeah, I think you win.
Speaker 2:Listen here, Dibble, Oklahoma, I'm coming for that mustard yellow belt. It will be mine again. From your county to this county the 918 will represent Okay question yeah, I've competitive eating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what? What is the most embarrassing food to hold the record for? Like which one would you be? Like man I? I really kind of wish I didn't have that record I.
Speaker 2:Mean, I think he's a lot of hot dogs, which again they're. The reason for that is they're cheap, easy to make. I don't know a lot of hot dogs is. I mean it's To quote a comedian it's not like they're giving away you and grain. You know it's not like quality the most embarrassing how dogs you think you can eat and how long?
Speaker 1:A couple minutes. Let's say, you have infinite time. I wanted time. I want it. Well, no, you can't stop. What is, what is?
Speaker 2:your fail point. I don't know something about 50 hot dogs. Just I can, I'll do it. I'll do it right now. I'll do it right now. Let's set it up. Give me a Saturday, we'll do 50 hot dogs, we'll do it, and no way infinite time. I'll just eat them. I'll just go my pace and we'll go. It'll be fine.
Speaker 1:You're a pace 50 is done in four minutes.
Speaker 2:Sprit the 50 embarrassing foods. I don't know man, like Whatever food feels the most shameful product a CC's pizza slice or whatever? Like being the guy that had the most CC's pizza Pizza, because, like the way you practice that as you practice sadness, I think it's probably so as a CC slices man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:See you later today. As a joke, I For for a minute for about a two-year period of time. You know how, every when we get asked to go speak at places, yeah, and they're like send send us a headshot in a bio. I Put on my bio because I thought it was funny. Yeah, that I set the middle school.
Speaker 2:Record at CC's pizza. Like you're on the wall like like state level.
Speaker 1:I thought that was a funny joke. I think there were people that thought I was serious. Just he's putting his blue ribbons on paper because even though I'm a big guy, I don't feel like I eat a lot.
Speaker 2:No, that's so like if I could speak candid about our friendship, like for being like the big guy in our relationship.
Speaker 1:Oh, whatever, way more than I can't much more than you. I can't keep up with you, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's hilarious to me sometimes that like we'll go to places and like we'll get like a salad at a big plate of nachos, you're like none of the salads for him. Like it's, it's the best.
Speaker 1:It's wild to me every time we travel and I come home, I'll have gained four pounds, yeah, and Eating at two-thirds what I eat. Yeah, and I'm like how is that doing? I?
Speaker 2:don't know, it's just a lot of 530 am we're?
Speaker 1:I don't know I mean, you're not running that much my guy. I cannot run it that much. Okay, um, I Think. I think it's pulled eggs, oh.
Speaker 2:Boiled eggs or boiled peanuts. Oh, can you imagine the amount of? Oh my, your body would stink, would literally like, literally the musk you would build up sweating as you were working and going through it like it would. It would carry an odor, like it would, literally you would carry the odor of boiled eggs or deviled it. Boiled eggs, boiled eggs, do you?
Speaker 1:think at like conclave this next year we could set it up. We could host a youth pastor eating competition Like roll into a cc's yeah, all sit at the sticky table.
Speaker 2:It's just line it up at the table. You better a buffalo Wild Wings? Well, I want you to cost you $94, I mean, but wouldn't you want to know who the champ is, though I can't afford to eat is we'll have to pay in. We're all paying in, right. The winner goes home with all the Buffalo Wild Wings they could eat.
Speaker 1:No see, that's the problem card, if we take them to cc's $3. That's right.
Speaker 2:I know dollars. Yeah, $9 in a drink. We can see what happens. All right, we've gone. All right, we'll CC you conclave. Okay, we're gonna find a conclave at Chat in New York. Tennessee will be there. Will be there. Well, so the one thing that you wanted to mention is this problem has been addressed in my life before. Yes, and this is actually. This is actually a really sweet moment of Like this. We've been friends for a long time, but there is a sympathy, there's a sympathy circle. That's happened because, apparently, when I was younger, I ate fast, so much so that when you were hanging out with my family, my mom brought it up to you?
Speaker 1:Yes, and I don't remember if I brought it up to your mom. I actually think your mom initiated it and was like this does act, still eat fast.
Speaker 2:She was looking out.
Speaker 1:I was like oh yes, yes, mrs Vorkin, he does. And the line that your mom gave me, that she would mention to you, yeah, which is the sweetest thing lovingly, gently, just elementary Zach Zach. No one's gonna take it from you.
Speaker 2:Like I find my brother and sister for food. Yeah, brother's just never took it, but she was like I think there was at one point. She was actually worried she may have called off that. We'll have to ask her if she ever called the Elementary school cafeteria to ask if I was like being bullied at lunch. I think she had some real deep-seated like mom guilt of like. Are they trying to take his lunch every day?
Speaker 1:So I think so.
Speaker 2:Is eating so fast? Is it like a self-protection, like self-defense mechanism, like if I eat it they can't take it? I don't know. I think I know why it's been a problem for.
Speaker 1:I think I know why you eat so fast. Okay, knowing your personality, haven't been around you for so long. Now, I Think you eat fast because you are ready for the next thing. Okay, you enjoy the meal, but it's like what's next?
Speaker 2:We were here, but what's next? That's fair, that's fair, okay. Well, we want to talk about next things. We've been talking about relationships the last couple episodes. Some of the stuff we wanted to share today is a little bit like thinking ahead For the future of what relationships will look like. So we spent time at our summer event launch at some more conference Conversation.
Speaker 2:This has kind of been like one of the things that we've talked about as a training team at LifeWaste students is Relationships are essential in student ministry, but what is the future of relationships? And so one of the things that I've brought to the team that we've been in dialogue about for a year now is the ways in which our Relationships are being redefined post COVID For our students in ways that maybe aren't familiar to us. Like we're saying words and we do this at church a lot. We'll say words like Discipleship and community and we'll all nod, be like that's a great word, we like that, we do, we love it. Like, like we ought to be, we ought to have more community at our church, but then no one actually does the work to explain like, like the grit of what that actually looks like. It's just somehow we started more groups that went 15 minutes longer, that I mean maybe what it wasn't.
Speaker 2:So community discipleship, I think in student ministry, the word that is being redefined out from underneath us, because we don't always put the time into Explaining what we mean is relationships, and I've shared with the team that, like the research is heading in a way, the fancy phrase is parasocial Relationships, or that parasocial relationships are becoming normal or normative, and it's it's a concern. Again. I don't know exactly how it all plays out. I know it affects us a lot and our age group, but it definitely affects a lot of our students, your students, and the ways in which they are connecting with people, with each other, and ultimately, your ministry. Or even to put in big terms, theologically, god, like how they understand what it means to have a relationship with God or Jesus, is be redefined in ways that maybe we should take notice of.
Speaker 1:Can I give a little bit of breakdown?
Speaker 2:on that pair of social.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shape it up a little bit yeah, so that's not a phrase that was coined by Zach, didn't make it up. So sociology background of pair of social actually was researched. That was done in the 50s is kind of when that began specifically having to do with Elvis. Okay yeah. It's kind of when a lot of that started.
Speaker 2:It's connected to celebrity culture, Correct? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it is this understanding and idea for, and even back then, for adolescents who were becoming enamored with Elvis, specifically at that time period. Yet a lot of young ladies who, even though they had never met Elvis before, talked with Elvis, started to really believe, like they knew him.
Speaker 2:He could love them At a deeper level. I'm getting dressed and ready in a way that maybe if he ever saw me, he would notice me. Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so there's this relationship, in a way that is built between this celebrity type, culture or a celebrity person or idea or thing, right, because I don't even think it has to be necessarily a person, right? Well?
Speaker 2:so part of the research is actually it could be fictitious characters, like there's enough evidence that, like some of the folks that imagine themselves in a world like Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, that's like 100% fictional and yet for them they feel like as moved or deeply by participating in that world as our own. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so the belief and I think rightfully so, in looking at current youth culture is, if you have students who are if research is correct are spending as much time on YouTube and Netflix as we believe they are, and not only just mindlessly scrolling, but have YouTube channels that they frequent a lot, they begin to know Mr B's beauty point Like these kind of characters are people, and even lesser ones, like.
Speaker 2:That's probably the thing that I think the most interesting is. We grew up in like a celebrity culture where, like Michael Jordan's the man we got posters of him at the Book Fair Tom Cruise is in all of our movies like actors and sports figures We've all had crushes on like models or actresses. The thing that's different now is that some of the scale of this it may be a YouTuber with like a couple thousand subscribers, but Jack or Betty is exactly the person that your student is like dialed into in a way that's like not a massive trend but almost like a micro trend.
Speaker 1:Well, so case in point, even for you and I, and I'm going to detail we have a YouTuber that puts content out that we like to enjoy watching. Every day, at lunch, every day at lunch and I was complaining to you today that he's been posting closer to one than noon.
Speaker 2:He's ruining your lunch day.
Speaker 1:He's ruining my lunch day, your lunch date with him has now been altered.
Speaker 2:You've never met this man. No, no, no. And yet you feel like you know him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:In some way. I definitely understand his humor, but every day he had been putting content out at noon and so that I would always grab my lunch watch his video because I work from the house and by myself.
Speaker 2:You gotta have lunch with somebody Right.
Speaker 1:And then you and I would always talk about his content and stuff like that and so. But for our students right, who have these people that they follow, they begin to build trust for these relationships and then, over time, like we all understand, with YouTube content, even when it's like a video game that they like to enjoy or watch or whatever, then it becomes more than about that video game. They begin to talk about ethics, society, those kind of things.
Speaker 2:Someone streams long enough, they're gonna talk about all of it. That's the thing that's so different is, instead of the, like Michael Jordan plays basketball. Well, you know, Louise and Jack are streaming six, eight hours at a time. They're gonna start talking about everyday topics and not just Fortnite or this like app or trend or thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so part of that right, when they begin to understand and know these people, it also begins to shape the way that they do relationships. Yes, Not just with that person, but All relationships, all relationships, even when those relationships are face to face, right, I mean, think about it if a student becomes okay, let's back up you for it. Let's imagine you have a student who's a little less confident okay in relationships. Now it begins to watch this streamer over and over again, maybe even for themself. They begin to type in the chat and those kind of things get engaged man Contribute, follow those are gonna build confidence even for that young man who Adopt the humor?
Speaker 1:Nobody else seems to connect with them at school, yet somehow on this message board people read what he writes, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, people celebrate and like him Like man. Even back in the day, my brother was really involved in a gaming community and they all had their code names and whatever else kind of handles and he like rose to the ranks. Like they had a ranking system for how involved people were, and there's still several guys that he's friends with that existed that way, and again I think about the proliferation of that. Now it's so different, but it's happening in your ministry and I think some of the ways in which that we need to acknowledge it are important. So some of the things that you've shared, I would kind of group with these three terms. This is kind of the ways in which that we're defining around it and that the parasocial relationship normal or normative or becoming more normative is, first and foremost, asynchronous.
Speaker 2:One of the things that has really changed in the last few years is that everything is kind of on my own terms, on demand. There's like very few things that are live TV anymore, Apart from, like sporting matches or whatever. You can kind of watch whatever you want, when you want, on your own time, on your own device, whatever, and so, whether it's replying to emails, dropping comments, interaction is on your terms and I think for a lot of student ministry, we've got to take stock of everything else in our students' life. Yeah, there might be homework, deadlines and a few other things school related, but for all of their social cues and relationships, a lot of it are held in their own terms. This is why so many students, when you're like, hey, you come into this event or this thing, instead of saying yes or no, we'll say yes or silent, because they weren't ready to respond yet, either because it was a negative feeling or emotion or were to create a riff with you. They just don't. They just disengage because they were gonna choose when they wanted to get involved.
Speaker 1:Because that's how you respond online Right, right, right.
Speaker 2:You just like. Whenever you're ready, you share, and if you're not ready, you never share. I mean, how many folks watch videos and don't subscribe or don't comment Like? There's so many ways to keep up with stuff without being like too invested in it, which is why the second thing that becomes really important for us are the ways in which everything is moving to become more transactional, even if it's as small as like this video, follow my content, buy my merch.
Speaker 2:One of the things that you're gauging engagement with is how much they're willing to like, commit or push in or lean, and so for I think, a lot of our students. They're seeing that like support looks like likes, follows and dollars spent, so it may not be as humanly engaging they may just be showing support of. This is like the critique of a lot of like, slactivism of a word of like oh, it's a cause I care about, I'll send five bucks or whatever. Like I chipped in a little bit. I'm not doing anything, but I chipped in. Or I like that streamer, I'll buy his hoodie and that's my way. I'm supporting. It can take a dark side when folks are not just selling like their followership, sponsorship and merch, but their own self and content. We see this in some of the modes of Patreon only fans. Other areas where people are like literally their body is their body of work, get time with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get time with me in both, just like an access way, but also get pictures of me, videos of me, which is why the third thing is crowdsourced.
Speaker 2:It's like, okay, well, things are on your own time and they're transactional. I don't wanna make things that aren't highly involved, so tell me what you want me to make. And this is the way in which a lot of this becomes a manipulative, twisted or perversion of healthy relationships is a massive folks are demanding from a person, and that person is hoping to have what they will want or need because of the way in which it's been shaped, and so that's a little again. We're gonna have celebrities, we're gonna have artists and musicians, and I think having a YouTube channel or a Twitch following or stream can all be fun things, but for your students, this is showing up in a lot of ways that I think is affecting even us, which is one of the concerns that you've raised that some of the language that influencers, streamers, youtubers are using is dangerous, because it's similar to how we end up talking about our own ministry.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the reality is it's a little bit of the chicken and the egg is I don't know which one came first the fact that even the phrase like youth pastor is becoming a meme. Let you know that like it's out there. Youth ministry as a whole has shaped and affected A lot of people, a lot of people in the way that they see a certain person and the way that you and I even talk to a large audience and, if you really like, examine some of these, like YouTube influencers, it looks very student ministry, student ministry.
Speaker 2:They have a youth ministry. I mean again, it's teenagers that we're trying to find an appeal. You're designing a shirt for. You're hosting an online event for there's inside jokes and language. There's weekly talks. Hey man, that sounds a lot like something else.
Speaker 1:Well, literally the largest youth minister, or youth minister, one of the largest influencers on YouTube, mr Beast, it's basically a youth pastor. Dude, it's games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he and over time he's doing global scale youth group games. Yeah, last one to stop touching this car wins a million bucks. You've done the same thing, but it was a Hot Wheels or a remote control car and it was for five bucks yeah.
Speaker 1:And so like he's playing these kind of-.
Speaker 2:Waiting for global chubby bunny? Oh no, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, he is extremely wild, right? Oh yeah, it actually is. It's actually just rabbits. You have to go catch it in a real rabbit, sorry.
Speaker 1:But like you take somebody like that and so, like, what does all of this mean for us? Yeah, and I think being thoughtful of going, okay, not every kid. So right, hear us, these are trends that we see yeah, that have influence on the way that students and even ourselves, specifically for millennials, we need to understand that-.
Speaker 2:We are in it too. We are shaped by this as well. We are in it too.
Speaker 1:But on the asynchronous stuff, right, like on their own time. Yeah, I think that's where we see some tension between the youth pastor and the student. Yes who, youth pastors are frustrated because kids aren't showing up on Wednesday nights, right, right, and I think in the back of the kid's mind it's like well, wednesday night's still there, right, yeah, like I could come if I needed to come. I wanted to come and there's this disconnect between like commitment or like we want you there and you're like yeah, I know you were there.
Speaker 2:Like they're not mad, like that's where we were, like I need you there. You're like oh, are you mad, bro? Like why are you mad? Like I wanted you there. But you're like, I mean, I saw your post, I liked it, I liked your post, like if you post your sermon online, I watched your video and that was the support, right, they follow the channel, they liked the post, they saw the video, they were aware that you were having midweek. Same thing, right.
Speaker 1:Right, same thing. It's like if they got a message from Tim the Tatman, yeah, and was like, why were you not there? Like I was on the street, yeah. I watched the video on YouTube later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I heard about it. Yeah, like that's enough, like hearing about it, being aware of it, like you don't have to be in the room to be a part of it. Now, again, this is where the redefinition happens. You're like bam, but so much more happens in the room, and we agree. And we agree, so much more does happen in the room. But, for their mind, when they're like you need to be a part of this community, they're like I am, and so the standoff happens where you're like you're not a part of it enough, and they're like bro, like I went to camp and I follow you Instagram, I'm there yeah.
Speaker 2:You're like oh, I want more for you, and I think that's the word. Again, we don't have the answers. But I think some of the friction that we're feeling in a lot of student ministry right now is not just because they're busy with something else. They feel like they're just trying to juggle everything in their life and you're asking or demand of like I need you here this Wednesday gets lost in a mix, in a noise, in a request, when they felt like I thought we were good and that's an important thing to open up.
Speaker 1:The other piece to that that I think is really important and our conversations has helped me a lot and even like writing some you know, some Crickian stuff and things like that for us is this understanding that they process at a different speed because of the way that they're doing relationship. If you watch a video or somebody makes a post on X now or whatever, you have basically unlimited time to determine am I going to post? What am I gonna post?
Speaker 2:I could edit the post I can. I can write it, draft it, think about it and then post it, or the crowd sourcing piece of it, specifically with Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah and young ladies is they will have a group of other students preload confidence. Is that they will send the photo to yeah yeah of going. Should I post?
Speaker 2:this, yeah, yeah, which one should I?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah and so then, even before it goes out to the masses, it's been reviewed, it's being reviewed, and so then, when we want to bring them into a room, sit face-to-face, face-to-face, which is uncomfortable for them already with peers that may not be their closest friends right right after a 20-minute talk. Yeah, and then immediately want to go. How do you apply this to your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's too bold man, well, and it's too much. That's the, that's the tension that we play, and one of the things that I love that you've been talking a lot about Is not that we're proponents of do away with small groups. That's not at all.
Speaker 1:If you're hearing that you're not hearing us correctly. What we're wanting to make sure that is happening is that we're helping mold and shape students To be able to feel more and more comfortable to have Conversations. Yeah, and you have a phrase and I don't want to steal it. You've been using it and I love it so much. I've forgotten it, so please use it um, but for so many youth pastors, we want to take our students deep, hmm, and I get that, and I felt that feels, good and and we use words like that we want to take our students deep and we agree with that, support that and believe where that's where we should be going.
Speaker 1:But if we're not ready to help students enter the shallow water or less they'll drown, hmm, yeah, then we're not helping them get to that place of being able to answer that question For themselves of how do we apply this scripture. And we may have to be thoughtful enough to back up and go Before we think that relationship and community can happen inside of a circle, because I know, when I first started a student ministry, you, just you did, you made a small group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you get kids in a small group. A small group works and I think a small group still important. But if it doesn't feel as effective as it used to, it may not be because we should or shouldn't have them. There may be another layer of training, of comfort raising, of wall breaking for the existence of even meeting in that way.
Speaker 1:Well, it's being mindful enough to go. If I want our students to have an in-depth conversation about this book, then I've got to make sure that we're Creating space and opportunity for them to start to build trust yeah, an actual community in that group, and that may mean More than just well, if we lock them in the room long enough.
Speaker 2:You know we keep doing this every week. They'll figure out eventually. If I was just let's ask more questions. Yeah, I think the biggest thing again into this new year of thinking from 23 to 24, what are we? What are we actually preparing and training our students in? There's a lot of youth ministry that's happening because it's always happened or because it needs to happen. But I think about the ways in which we are equipping students today To be the leaders for tomorrow, to be faithful disciples in the everyday. And there are some of the things that we will answer because of cultural Trend, trends or objections, but there's also some things that have just shifted and how we understand and relate to each other that your ministry may be the best possible Anadote against or maybe counter cultural to the ways in which they experience anywhere else, which is super exciting, but also a challenge because it means it looks different than it does anywhere else and that takes time, patience and training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the the thing that I've thought about, yeah is okay. How do we, in this conversation that we're having, how do we put our own self in the shoes that we would maybe feel the same way? Hmm, and I think the the best example that I could think of and give is this Imagine if you got invited to a, a small group of youth pastors that you like, really respected. Yeah, okay, yeah, and we've all felt that like insecurity got to be in the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you like, do you already followed them and knew of? Them like it was like oh, I'm in the room, yeah, yeah so imagine you're in that scenario.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not just youth page, maybe it's like the past your theologians, like your people. Yeah, yeah, yeah you got invited to that room and you had no idea what was going to be talked about Before hand. Yeah, but they all did. But but well, and for students they think they do. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah everybody else in the circle somehow knows it more than they even though that's not true and you were immediately, without any time to process it, thrown questions that you had to answer in front of this group, we would probably most likely all hate that, unless you're a little bit of a narcissist and you're like I need to impress these folks. They needed me here anyway.
Speaker 2:Right okay. That's another conversation. What can I do for you, fine gentlemen? Oh no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:But I think for our students, knowing it or not, sometimes we're putting them in a situation like that and the reality is you and I, the more people in our industry that we've gotten to know, you start to realize that we're all kind of the same. We're all learning it and there is some comfort in that.
Speaker 1:There's some comfort in understanding how important relationship is in the room for deeper discipleship of these students and it goes back to how important the fun element is and how important it is we pull away for things like camp that we invest in these relationships. They get to know each other. They may not like every kid in their small group, but knowing that if they were to say something that wasn't just right.
Speaker 2:They wouldn't be laughed out of the room or talked about like we cannot take for granted how much that is ministry work, as much as right theology or over the top fun or teaching or preaching Like there's so many of our students, the same for so many of our students the safest social space for them to grow, explore and nurture healthy relationships should be your ministry, whatever it takes.
Speaker 1:Hey Zach, I'm not gonna talk about your fast eating, buying your back to other people.
Speaker 2:Thanks bud.
Speaker 1:But I'm really, really thankful that we get to share a lot of meals together, yeah, and that I get to know not only your eating habits but the opportunity to talk with each other. And for you youth ministers out there, in the same way that you want your students to have healthy and great relationships, my encouragement to you is that we also need healthy and great relationships, and so may you push into those for yourself, and may you go deep in relationships with other men and women that you can trust.
Speaker 2:Hey nobody's gonna take it. Nobody's gonna take it bud, Ah snap 0